Marco's latest vintage marvel....

[Marco]

Absolutely, Dave. You've hit the nail on the head with this:

Looking at some of the tests and knowing Mr Colloms at the time from mid-distance, I reckon that some of these pickups were slagged off because of the "next big thing..."

That's the problem, and as people are predisposed to believing what 'experts' say, what they write, is what sticks in their mind. That's why, on AoS, I'm determined to break through that prejudice and alert people to exactly what they're missing out on with some vintage gear!

Thanks for the info on the hierarchical pecking order of the various Goldrings, which is noted.

I intend to try a 'posher' elliptical stylus on the G800 (and of course the NOS one I've got coming), so that will be interesting, but I'm not necessarily expecting to prefer it.

Marco.

[Marco]

Can I just check something with 'those in the know', as it were. Did the G800 range all use the same generator and body (or similar), and so the various models simply had a different stylus profile?


I've been having a good listen today to the beastie, and I know exactly what it reminds me of in my system: the 'cooking' DL-103 (when partnered optimally), only better!

The G800 has a similar musical presentation: very rhythmic, musically fluid, with a beautifully expressive midrange full of subtlety, texture and tonal colour, but without the graininess and slightly recessed high frequencies of the stock 103.

However, it has the 103's tight bouncy bass, cavernous low frequency extension, and overall 'fun factor'. It also has wideband soundstaging, exquisite stereo separation, and filigree detailing, the latter which somewhat escapes the 'cooking' 103, making the G800 a most addictive listen.

Furthermore, does anyone know if the G800 uses Alnico magnets? I'm sure I can hear their 'house signature', which I absolutely adore

It also shares some traits with the Shure M3D, although it doesn't quite have its level of midrange magic, a la SPU, or the former's slightly fruity bass, therefore I'd say that the G800 is a cross between the DL-103 and M3D, which as I own all three cartridges, I can say with some confidence.

Not bad for a cartridge that cost me the grand total of £14.70! However, there is still further tweaking to do, as I feel that some more mass is needed, and so I've ordered this little chap from Analogue Seduction:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...EOIBSA:GB:1123

...which I'll be popping onto the LT-12 headshell, thus allowing me also to use the heavy Jelco counterweight balance (the cartridge/headshell combo at the moment isn't heavy enough), and in total increase the tonearm's effective mass. BEWARE: this is not a cartridge which will perform optimally in a low to medium mass tonearm. It is a traditional low-compliance design.

I've also found that VTF is better set at 2.7g, as opposed to 2.5g, which is where everything clicks into place. It's all good fun! I'll update further, as and when I have anything new to add

Oh, and Barry wanted to know how the Shure SC35C compared with the Goldring.... Well, quite simply, there is no comparison, as the G800 trounces it! More on that later.

Marco.

[DSJR]

Marco, as far as I'm aware, all the G800's used the same body. They're "induced magnet" types, hence the magnet disc above the stylus assembly and just behind the "G" on the front. ADC used similar techniques, which I believe to be a moving "magnetisable material" rather than a moving fixed magnet, if you know what I mean.

The original G800 may have all but bottomed out at 2.7g, the G800H being the one for that play-weight. HOWEVER, please follow link below -

http://es.shure.com/idc/groups/tech_...a425(1-68).pdf

I can't lift the relevant text, but halfway down, there's a reference to after-market M3-D styli (I'm assuming this was written in the early 70's or late 60's at the earliest, around the time the M75 series was launched). The variation between all the then available pattern styli was horrendous. I know that automated production would help hugely here, but I suspect the aftermarket G800 stylus would be different (better?) than the original.

[Marco]

Hi Dave,

Marco, as far as I'm aware, all the G800's used the same body.

Ah, thanks for the info. It's what I suspected, and rather proves my point that the Goldring *is* a quality cartridge, if the 800E and Super E were so highly regarded in their day.

It's the generator which is at the 'business end' of how a cartridge intrinsically sounds. The stylus type simply alters the final presentation, therefore which one is 'superior' will depend on how one prefers music reproduced, vis-à-vis the sonic signatures of conical vs. elliptical styli.

Me? I'll happily trade a (little) fine detail retrieval and treble extension for the 'boogie factor' and natural tonality of a nice conical tip.

The original G800 may have all but bottomed out at 2.7g, the G800H being the one for that play-weight.

Ok, that's interesting. You can solve something for me then: First of all, this is the stylus I'm using:

http://www.stylusplus.co.uk/stylus-f...dge-7231-p.asp

Observe where it says:

Tracking Weight: 2 - 4 Grams

So, at 2.7g, I'm still well within the recommended range. However, it isn't an original G800 stylus, although it is a conical type

Now, going back to the G800H you mentioned, have a look here, and scroll down about a quarter of the way to where the D-110H and D-110E styli are shown:

http://www.adelcom.net/GoldringStylus1.htm

Could those be used with my G800 cartridge?

HOWEVER, please follow link below -

[urlhttp://es.shure.com/idc/groups/tech_pubs/@global_managed/documents/webcontent/us_pro_m80e_ug_27a425(1-68).pdf[/url]

I can't lift the relevant text, but halfway down, there's a reference to after-market M3-D styli (I'm assuming this was written in the early 70's or late 60's at the earliest, around the time the M75 series was launched). The variation between all the then available pattern styli was horrendous. I know that automated production would help hugely here, but I suspect the aftermarket G800 stylus would be different (better?) than the original.

Interesting! I'll have a look at that. Meanwhile your answer to the above question would be useful - churz

Marco.

[Barry]

Brilliant

The Lab 80 rumble-box has all the classic "idler" qualities of pitch and subtle timbre and the arm is actually perfect for the job - and with a solid cast headshell too. Some screws needed tightening and now the arm doesn't rattle around and retains low friction. even the auto-trip which has its roots in the 50's models seems to behave at side end. The "Ed Saunders M55E" sounds lovely in it and the bass now behaves itself, unlike in the Dual 701, where the bass was a bit thick and indistinct.

What is the "Ed Saunders M55E" Dave?

I have sample of the Shure M55E that I have been meaning to dig out and give it a listen. The M55E was my first 'serious' cartridge after the M3D, and at the time I much preferred it to the M3D.

SME used to show the M55E fitted into the 3009 arm in adverts of the time. That was what prompted me to buy one.

Regards

[DSJR]

OOOOOWWWWWWW - those prices Marco..

I can't exactly remember, but the original G800H was around 2.5 to 3g, the G800 around 2 to 2.5g, the 800E around 1.25 - 1.75g and the Super E about 1.25 IIRC. Of course, back then "we" tracked as low as possible with no understanding of proper groove contact. A call to Expert Styli may be worthwhile, as a worn original may be better retipped with a naked diamond? Jico do a D110 stylus and this could be considered too - the one you have may be this already with any luck...

I've just found a foreign site giving original G800 specs as compliance "20" and suggested playing weight as 1 - 3g, which is about right according to memory.

Barry, if you look on fleabay, you'll see that Ed Saunders in the US has some hand finished re-makes of the Shure V15 series and a couple of others. These styli are Swiss made (not Jico's) and the diamonds are hand set the Rega way (with a shadow-graph). I understand that Rega styli are sourced in Switzerland as well and fitted to their bodies here. All I can tell you is that the Ed Saunders stylus sounds very sweet, the ssssssparkle in extreme treble well controlled and not intrusive I think. Tracking is ok if not as spectacular as later V15 models (the M55E was the V15mk1 I understand) and only Grace & Danger by John Martyn defeats it (SSsssweet little Myssssstery )

[Marco]

OOOOOWWWWWWW - those prices Marco..

Thanks for the info, Dave, but does that mean the 'D-110H' and 'D-110E' styli shown on that site are compatable with my G800, or not?

I need to know before I order any, dude.

Marco.

[DSJR]

They'll fit the body and work as well as they can. The "E" would be my choice as treble "should" be clearer. The H wouldn't be necessary as it's more for old Garrards like the old SP25's and older 4HF's etc... I can't remember if the main difference between the 800 and 800H wasn't output as well (so long ago, sorry), the "H" being higher..

[Marco]

Ok, churz. I might give the 'E' a go if I can't find it cheaper somewhere else

Marco.

[Barry]

Barry, if you look on fleabay, you'll see that Ed Saunders in the US has some hand finished re-makes of the Shure V15 series and a couple of others. These styli are Swiss made (not Jico's) and the diamonds are hand set the Rega way (with a shadow-graph). I understand that Rega styli are sourced in Switzerland as well and fitted to their bodies here. All I can tell you is that the Ed Saunders stylus sounds very sweet, the ssssssparkle in extreme treble well controlled and not intrusive I think. Tracking is ok if not as spectacular as later V15 models (the M55E was the V15mk1 I understand) and only Grace & Danger by John Martyn defeats it (SSsssweet little Myssssstery )

Thanks for that Dave. I'll get around to fitting the stock M55E in my SME and see how it sounds. Then maybe later I track down one of those Ed Saunders stylii. But only after I've had one of my Deccas worked on by Presence Audio.

Actually that track off 'Grace and Danger' should sound like "Schweet little meeschtery" , just like the track "Walking on sausages"

Regards