Marc Phillips of the Anti-Direct Drive League: Does he know his stuff or is he BS?

[Marco]

Ok, since I know the folks here aren't sensitive little flowers....

In addition to the fact that you're supposedly an "engineering" type that still believes in an invisible guy up in the sky, I have to admit you and your friends look rather foolish on your little audio discussion forum. The fact that you treat me one way in direct correspondence and then run back to your forum to call me name says volumes about the type of person you are.

I love how you quote my email (which can be illegal if you don't have my expressed consent) and say "looks like we hit a raw nerve." That's what guys on audio discussion forums always say when they've been bested and can't come up with a solid response. Looking through the responses in that thread, I can safely say there isn't a knowledgeable or experienced audio guy in the lot.

For example:

I'm repeatedly called a Rega nut and a Rega fanboy, but a little research reveals that I owned a J.A. Michell turntable throughout the last decade. That's some "Rega nut."

One person says: "I think he needs to explain the science behind his rubber bands before dissing real & not perceived differences between TT." You mean this guy doesn't know the science behind belt drives and how they can isolate vibrations and separate the platter from the plinth? And why is this guy posting on an audio forum if he doesn't understand this?

Another says: "Perhaps a quick wank and a bit of Led Zeppelin would be the medicine he needs!!" Ah, so you're a bunch of potheads. That explains a lot. From the looks of it, NONE of you are getting ANY, which is fairly typical of guys who hang out on audio forums.

You said: "Old Marc-y boy also seems like one of those types who needs a double-blind test to prove he's got a dick between his legs!" No...I did DBT tests to silence the wankers like you who don't accept listening with one's ears, which I usually do. In other words, I backed my statements up with fact. And besides, how old are you? 17? What grown man has to resort to dick jokes when discussing audio? Answer: none.

Another complete idiot says: "Then I read about Rega's tending to run fast. Fast or slow is a big no-no in my book; because, speed fluctuations change pitch. That's not just my opinion. Then I watched a youtube video recently where someone had change the stock belt for the "white" belt. He raves on the video with an "oh yeah!"." First, he READ about Regas running fast. He didn't check. That's some scientist there. I actually tested the speeds of three random Regas from warehouse stock and they all ran EXACTLY on speed. Plus, an electronic speed control on Regas render the discussion moot. And the science behind the white belt is solid engineering...more consistent tolerances in the materials lead to less slippage. And the white belt is only $20 more than a standard belt. Not a bad deal for an audible difference, one that was clearly heard in DBTs. I haven't heard a single real engineer bash the design of the white belt; it all makes perfect sense to someone who really does understand physics.

Another dolt said: The funny thing is that now some (not all) of those who bashed the 1200 for being a cheap dj table (but wanted to "test" one out ... can't afford one." Really? I'd like to see the proof of THAT. What a foolish statement. I want to see one audiophile who bashed the 1200 and now can't afford one. JUST ONE.

Another functionally illiterate turd said: "I think the boy may be a bit of a specialist...which has always been the point of "The Vinyl Anachronist."
..it's bad enough assuming some trumped up name, but then to refer to oneself in the third person by it, is a bit worrying." I love this one, which proves just how dumb you guys are. The Vinyl Anachronist is the name of the column. My name is Marc Phillips. Therefore, I am not speaking of myself in the third person. So you guys don't know audio, and you can't read. Classic.

And you close with this winner: "Indeed - I think he's more 'special needs', than a specialist!" Consider I work with special needs children, I take offense to this. What a douchebag you and your friends are. You know, I'd join your little forum and smack you all around a bit, but considering you're the site administrator you'd just moderate me out. Besides, I don't fraternize with idiots. But what I will do is point out the idiocies and inaccuracies of you and your crew to the people who know audio, and we'll all have a laugh at the wannabes' expense.

Now, scumbag--do you have the balls to print this on your forum, completely unedited?

Don't email me again, loser.

Marc

Apparently so. Obviously he doesn't know me.....

The poor boy's burst a blood vessel - in all honesty, I fear for his health. But where on earth did he get the idea we were all 'engineering/measurement types'?

AoS is mainly populated by 'trust your ears' type subjectivists, and experienced and discerning ones at that.

What Marc fails to realise is that if he hadn't written such ill-informed, outrageously biased and turgid drivel about the SL-1200 in 2006, and direct-drive T/Ts in general in the first place, then he might have been treated with some respect, rather than the ridicule he now so richly deserves!

Marco.

P.S Marc, if you're reading, you're more than welcome to join and "smack us all around a bit". And if you do, I promise that I will not moderate/edit one single word you write, simply because the entertainment value would suffer

[MartinT]

Marc - YOU made an idiotic statement which I quoted in my post #18. We all know, really, that there are good and bad examples of every turntable technology, be it direct drive, belt drive, idler wheel or some other mechanism. To make such a sweeping statement just made you look silly. The forum members here are a lot less biased and a lot more open-minded than just about any other forum I've visited.

So stop the shouty nonsense and argue your ground. Some of us here *are* engineers and we do understand the principles at work. Tell us why direct drive turntables are all poor. We have decks that say otherwise and are prepared to demonstrate that truth.

[WAD62]

Marc,

Hope you can read this, apologies for incorrectly assuming your column name was a pseudonym.

That said you should calm down and wipe the foam from your mouth, you bitterness and bile does not reflect well upon your opinions.

I'm a Linn user, so don't assume were over here in one big like minded technology gang, this site allows and promotes objective opinions, something you might like to take on board...just a little help for your 'Life Skills'

[chris@panteg]

This is all turning a bit nasty ! and perhaps a proper disscussion over a few beers would be far better , Marc ' i didn't know you worked with special needs children ' but then how would any of us here have known that !

I still say anyone who has lived with the SL1200 (modded) or not and a number of quality belt drive's and still feels the 1200 is lacking ' is fine with me .

My gripe is with anyone dissing the deck , without even bothering to live it or trying to get the best out of it , bearings 'psu's etc , and just sweepingly stating the TT i have had for the last 25 years is the best and can't be bettered ?

[Marco]

Yes, I agree with Chris. And I apologise for the special needs remark, which was rather insensitive.

Now we've all had the chance to poke a little fun at Marc, provoked by the ever-so-slightly biased and closed-minded article he wrote about the SL-1200 in 2006 (which given the nature of its content, he could not realistically grudge our piss-taking), and since he's obviously learned from then, we should turn this into something constructive....

Like Chris, I abhor those who slag off the Techie that haven't actually heard what a modified version is capable of, and basically talk through the hole in the arse. However, as Marc says, he's used one with a better PSU, tonearm and cartridge, so he's entitled to his opinion.

Therefore, let's all put down our 'poisoned pens' and try and have a meaningful debate on the matter. Marc clearly has lots to say on the subject, and has a significant amount of relevant experience to call upon of using both direct-drive and belt-drive T/Ts.

In that respect, I would invite him to join us and offer his thoughts, and see whether or not we can learn from each other. So now the hilarity is over, let's see if anything genuinely worthwhile can be gleaned from this little episode......

Marc, if you're reading, come on in and join the mad house! That is, "if you have the balls"....?

Marco.

[audio39]

Just finished reading the entire thread...twice!!

So if Marc is jumping on AoS here and there I would suggest he take a moment to peruse the bottom of each post...most of us have identified our gear, Marc could have easily found that his point of view that each poster was a Technics fanboy was incorrect.

Marc, if you're reading this, take note. I've been in this hobby for a full 32 years now. I have owned a turntable from near to every manufacturer...and if I haven't owned one it likely means I had the chance to hear that companies goods and chose to stay away.

One of my all time favourite tables is the Kenwood KD-600, a DD with enormous potential, and I say that not from opinion but from having owned and decked out 600's on 3 separate occasions...this going back many years.

I have owned an LP-12 - and I hated it - at least as much as someone can hate a piece of gear. I have on numerous occasions listened to other folks Rega's, each time going away wondering what all the noise was about. And I know a gent with a fully decked out KAB modded 1200...he has an FR arm mounted (he changed the arm some time ago) on the deck and is running a very expensive Shelter cart...I don't have a deep appreciation for the cart, but I have garnered a deep appreciation for the table.

For reference, this same friend owns a few other tables, 2 of those specimens are belt driven, both he and I prefer his Technics.

So your rambling about our perspective is both inaccurate and undeserved...it would appear that myself and many others here HAVE heard the other side, yet we believe the Technics to be an excellent music producer.

Marc, at the end of the day, it's just your opinion. If we all thought, saw, and heard the same way...well, we'd all be fighting over the same woman, wouldn't we?

And just for shits-n-giggles I close with my opinion of the Michell you're so proud of...I would not own one, I find their presentation sterile.

I do hope Marc is able to open his mind to the idea that perhaps his own narrow-minded-ness inhibits others from hearing him.

Rick.

[Epicurus]

The guy is an absolute clown and I need only scratch the surface of what I've learned during my undergrad studies (I'm an industrial engineer and the Technical Chamber considers us to be mechanical engineers, because we do receive such knowledge as students). While it is true that motors of any kind tend to vibrate, the magnitude, frequency and intensity - to use laymen's terms of these vibrations depends on the following factors:

• Type of motor (is it a reciprocating engine - i.e. the piston engines found in old train engines, steam ships contemporary to the Great Eastern and, of course, our cars - , is it a rotary - Wankel - engine, is it an electric motor that only has rotating parts?). Reciprocating engines suffer very badly from vibrations and, to alleviate for this, we take a ton of measures, besides balancing the crankshaft, propshaft, halfshafts and wheels: counter-rotating shafts, increasing the number of cylinders, using V6, V8, V12 engines, boxer engines, choosing engine block materials that will better absorb vibrations (for instance, cast iron is thought to absorb engine vibrations better than aluminium), paying extra close attention to the design of the engine mounts, etc. Rotary engines (i.e. Wankel engines - see Mazda RX series and NSU Ro80 - and some other, newer, non-Wankel rotary engine designs) fare A LOT better in this department. What engineers consider absolutely perfect when it comes to vibration is the electric motor and the turbojet/turbofan engine: rotating parts only, no reciprocating parts whatsoever. But even these are liable to the odd vibration and it's a matter of implementation and design.
• The faster an engine revs, the more intense the vibrations will be. Thus, as has been pointed out, a well-designed electric motor that rotates at 33.3333rpm is always going to vibrate less than if it was rotating at 45rpm, much less than if it was rotating at 78rpm and significantly less than if it was rotating at 200rpm or more.
• The use of a belt between the motor's shaft and the driven wheel or platter does NOT guarantee absorption of vibrations. Seriously. I've seen vibrations transfered to camshafts from a problematic crankshaft through the belt and it wasn't a pretty sight at all (and it was even worse to drive the afflicted car).
• Measurements don't lie. Period. And Hi-Fi and High-End magazines that do not measure the equipment they "test" should just close their doors forever. And of course, ANY reviewer that does not back his statements with measurements and experimental data is a con artist, a fraudster and a crook and, of course, his writings have [B][I]ZERO[B] value and credibility.

Sorry Mr. Marc Phillips, you shouldn't have attracted the attention of people who have studied mechanics and come from an engineering background. You can't back your statements with facts, you can't be bothered to and all you do is camouflage your ignorance with a snarky kind of writing. But, sadly for you, some of us are far better-versed in the world of internet discourse than yourself; and the internet can be an unforgiving bitch, you know, especially when you try to pick on people who can use their knowledge to rip you to shreds and do it just for the lulz.

Thanks for entertaining us with this ridiculously rude and lulzy email you sent to Marco, now go back to your corner and bitch all you want to your "we don't need real equipment tests" fanbois. You only proved that (a) your opinions are not only subjective, but are entirely unsupported by facts, (b) you're a complete and utter drama queen. I suggest that you take your drivel to other sounding boards like Live Journal (THE haven for people like you).

[bigmoog]

"The only time measurements mean anything in hifi, is when deciding if your rega/linn/etc/etc turntable will fit into the dustbin when the time comes (rapidly) to replace it with something a little bit better such as a life or girlfriend...."

...as actually quoted by an engineer friend of mine who has a first class degree in engineering science gained at Oxford University (well before it cost 9K a year in fees.....) and who thinks we are all 'stupid'


personally I prefer high mass thread drives (fishing wire or silk)

[sondale]

"All lies and jest
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest."

[JazzBones]

Woweee! I own both and use both a modded Linn LP12 AND a tricked out Technics 1210 SL Mk2 turntables both in two seperate systems, different rooms. I enjoy what each brings to my musical enjoyment and have no blood pressure raising reasons to hate either, so sod the engineering swagger and get on with life and its differences. By the way my Tekko is in the main system as it proves much easier to use by both me and her

The love of good music is for well adjusted humans and the bull dust that attracts the donk heads must not be allowed, and

I'm off to give my Linny and Tekko a loving caress

Ron