Class T-amps

[Welder]

I’m blaming you and your mates for this Ali
I’m still struggling a bit with the differing chips and with your OB’s you’ve probably got a bit more leeway with power than me and my mates.
The valve amps I’ve owned haven’t been particularly good so how these compare to some of the more esoteric makes I’ll take your word for.
I’ve got the T Class here for the weekend, ostensibly to at least decide on how to case them up but tbh I keep playing stuff
I doubt I’ll be buying any other make because so far to my ears these are more than adequate.
I will probably buy for myself the single board Tube Pre/T100/PSU and call it a day with a bit of tweaking.
I’ve got that bloody Dac you recommended on its way in a month or so and that’s going to cost so spending over

[WAD62]

Regarding your comments in general, I have heard the Bantam against the mini-T, and I did prefer the Bantam. With the limited power from the bantam though, I don't think it will excel with a lot of commercial speakers of average sensitivity. Does work extremely well with the 95Db OB's though. In fact, I'd say they are as good as all but the best valve amps I've heard in most respects.

Hi Ali,

The Bantam Gold does seem quite speaker sensitive, on my mission 780SEs I found the Mini-T to have more bass. However I've just come back from my in-laws in Spain, the Bantam was their belated xmas pressie, along with a CA topaz CD10, and a pair of Polk audio tsi400s (they were 380 euros for a pair hence the purchase), and they are more sensitive than the missions. We basically looked for anything available in Spain at a reasonable cost.

They have a great room soundwise, but even taking that into consideration the sound was superb, considering it was a bit of a budget system, massive amounts of bass and beautiful detail, which confused the hell out of me...

[Ali Tait]

I’m blaming you and your mates for this Ali
I’m still struggling a bit with the differing chips and with your OB’s you’ve probably got a bit more leeway with power than me and my mates.
The valve amps I’ve owned haven’t been particularly good so how these compare to some of the more esoteric makes I’ll take your word for.
I’ve got the T Class here for the weekend, ostensibly to at least decide on how to case them up but tbh I keep playing stuff
I doubt I’ll be buying any other make because so far to my ears these are more than adequate.
I will probably buy for myself the single board Tube Pre/T100/PSU and call it a day with a bit of tweaking.
I’ve got that bloody Dac you recommended on its way in a month or so and that’s going to cost so spending over

Well if you're blaming me for getting you a great sound for little dosh, then guilty as charged!

So you've got a Buffalo coming? Lucky you, it's the best digital I've heard BUT that was with Nick's valve ouput stage. He built one for someone with his stage in and also the Ivy, so it was easy to switch between. I've read nothing but good things about the Ivy on the net, but Nick's stage really did make the Ivy sound broken. Only problem is it uses a pair of Sowter output trannies, so would involve more spends!

[Welder]

I think the Dac will be ongoing Ali.
I’ve got the basic USB input coming with it but hopefully the new asynchronous Dac board they’re developing won’t be too far away.
I heard the basic Dac with I assume the standard output stage. The guy who had it didn’t build it and didn’t seem to know very much about it.
I’ve listened to quite a few Dacs over the last year and they weren’t “enough better” than the HRT Pro to warrant the expense and hassle, just different. The Dac 11 I heard was noticeably better and considerably cheaper than those with comparable sound.

[Ali Tait]

Hi Ali,

The Bantam Gold does seem quite speaker sensitive, on my mission 780SEs I found the Mini-T to have more bass. However I've just come back from my in-laws in Spain, the Bantam was their belated xmas pressie, along with a CA topaz CD10, and a pair of Polk audio tsi400s (they were 380 euros for a pair hence the purchase), and they are more sensitive than the missions. We basically looked for anything available in Spain at a reasonable cost.

They have a great room soundwise, but even taking that into consideration the sound was superb, considering it was a bit of a budget system, massive amounts of bass and beautiful detail, which confused the hell out of me...

Yes, I found the same. When we tried the Bantam on Gary's AE's I had to put the amp into high gain so it would work properly, and I don't think those speakers are a difficult load. Different story on the OB's though. On normal gain I get huge bass and great soundstaging, and a sweet mid and top.

[Welder]

While I’ve been in the “naughty” corner I’ve had a bit of listening time with the T class mentioned above.

Overall, I am impressed. I’m possibly deluded but I think the two chips TA2020 and the TAA4100 sound different and overall I prefer the sound of the TA2020 both using the valve pre.

There is no doubt these amps are a bargain even in the more expensive guise from Autocostruire. However, there is something not quite right with the sound.
They give a very well defined sound stage, they’re extremely fast compared to say my Exposure, instruments have a nice tone, or lack of it, they have good driver control within their power range and despite my concerns, don’t drive to clipping as quickly as I thought they might and so far, not at all tiring to listen to.

I had similar feelings with the Nuforce kit I tried; fantastic, but, something just not quite right even compared to my fairly modest solid state kit.
I have read that Ali and I believe Garry thought the Bantam Golds had the performance edge over the Sonic T’s. Am I right in believing the Bantams are not in fact T class but a Gainclone hybrid?
I think I need to hear these for myself.

Interestingly, both the Autocstruire amps sounded better with a vinyl front end and seem a tad fussy about driver matching.
My overall feeling is at their price range they’re unbeatable if you’re buying new. What I’ve come to decide is that the one thing they seem to lack that’s important to me is what I can only describe as pace, they always sound flat out at any volume. While they don’t have the problem the Exposure does of needing exactly the right power output to sound its best, when the Exposure does hit that band it seems to be able give music something the T Class don’t.
I think this is something most valve amps get right and one of the reasons I bought the Exposure at the time, same valve pace feel without the colour, cant explain it any better than that.
Got say £1500 to spend on amplification and cant or wont mod and T Class (these anyway) might just save you a grand for equal performance. The better solid state and valve amps above this price might just give that something extra the T Class can’t quite manage.

[WAD62]

Hi John,

I'm pretty sure the Bantam Classic uses a Tripath chip (Genuine Tripath TA2024c), but I believe the Gold is their own implementation, although there's not much info available on their site, I'm sure I spotted a thread on the subject somewhere, this is from their site R.E. the Gold...

"Based on an even newer design, the Bantam Gold has the highest resolution, and lowest distortion of any Bantam Amplfier.
In fact the new output stage completely outperforms any class T implementation we have tried. (and we produce one of the best class T amps on the market today)"

[Krisbee]

A review of the Bantam Gold has just been posted at TNT Audio -

http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/bantam_gold_e.html

The amp is based on a ADAU1592 chip built on what looks to be a custom "Temple Audio" PCB.

[Ali Tait]

The Gold uses a Texas Instruments chip, the AU something or other, I'll see if I can find it again.

Whoops, looks like I read incorrect info, as above, it's an AD chip.Thanks for the heads up on the review Chris. I'd broadly agree with what is said therein, though the power supply info is incorrect,as according to Temple Audio (coz I asked!) the Gold can be run up to 18v.

John, I can see where you're coming from with what you hear with these amps.Having tried the Gold against the Mini T on Gary's speakers (88-90dB I think, somewhere round there anyway), I had to put the Gold on high gain setting to get a decent and loud enough sound, and that was driven from my WAD Pre2, which has huge drive capability. Can't remember how sensitive your speakers are (90dB?) but I think from what I have heard from various amps of this type, they really need a highish sensitivity speaker to give of their best, and that may be the reason you are hearing what you hear. I am running the Golds on a linear supply at 15.5v (as high as it will provide). I'm using them on OB's of around 95dB, so plenty headroom I think.

I think you should get a listen to a Gold if you can, perhaps better still the monoblocks, which are more powerful still. I fancied these myself, but I'd need four which is a bit pricey for what will just for AV use in the future. They may seem expensive against the competition, but I think people are used to the peanuts prices for Tripath amps from the East, but they are still dirt cheap for the performance on offer. I think you would like the Golds mate.

[ikaruga]

Without spending a lot of time reading this thread, apologies if I'm going over old ground.

I got quite obsessed with reading about these little amps so went and bought one in my quest to find a small form factor amp. Topping TP21 was what I settled on due to the addition of a headphone socket.

For what it was it was mightily impressive. Really nice sound. I don't claim to be any expert on sound but I know what I like. It punched it's way through d&b, rock, electronic music with great success. Until I went above half way then everything went seriously wrong with lots of distortion creeping in and a real harsh sound. It was coupled with my B&W 601 S3s which may not have been sensitive enough for it but I like music loud, probably a bit too loud and this little amp sadly didn't fill the room enough to my liking.

However in the right situation, small bedroom system or small listening room for moderate volumes, it'd take some beating at the price. I will consider a similar amp in the future for just that reason. I needed an all rounder with a bit of clout behind it which this Topping didn't provide. Also I still preferred my Technics delivery - itself getting quite brash above half way but not actually needing to take it that high all the time. Warmer, maybe a little wooly in the bass frequencies but I like that sort of sound.

Great bargains though. Just don't expect them to fill a normal sized room too well.