Gromit's music centre...

[Gromit]

Hi Marco - I'm going to up the arm's mass, only problem being that the counterweight is going to be a looooong way back so obviously wont be ideal. Think I may contact John and get him to make me one of his beautiful counterweights too. It'll look gorgeous next to that wood.

The Denon's starting to sing away nicely now - it's sounding best at around 2.6g which is about the same as it did in the Spacearm. It hasn't got the clout of the Lyra but its bass is probably fuller and 'meatier'. Not as musically effervescent though - the Dorian still has this wonderfully un-constrained feel, musical phrases ebb and flow more naturally. Still, for under 90 quid the 103's a joke....a very good one

As a footnote: When I first got the NAS back in 2005 Les at Walrus set it up in the shop with my old 103 - his first reaction, when I told him I was using the Denon, was 'I think you need to put a better cartridge in some time' (he didn't really know the Denon to be fair to him). Anyway he had a listen to the rig once set up and was 'very pleasantly surprised' at how damn good it sounded.

It ain't pretty - but it certainly seems to work...

[Marco]

Hey, Richard, if it works it works!

Yeah, ideally you want the c/w butting up as close to the arm's pivot point as possible. You'll achieve that if you're going to get one of John's brass jobs, providing you settle on the correct weight. You'll need to experiment to get that right, though.

You're about right with your VTF. I track my 103R at 2.7g, which I feel gives the best balance of bass weight and clarity, although of course this is very much personal taste and system dependant; certainly though the 103 sounds best set towards the upper limit of its range.

I know exactly what you mean with the Dorian. Like I said to Tim (Sid and Coke) in another thread, it's a matter of choosing your compromises. However, on second thoughts, you can spoil yourself and use both in different headshells! The joys of having a detachable headshell arm, eh?

Dealers and the uninitiated always say things like that about the 103 and probably even the 1210 or your P-71. Often in the eyes of these people if something is not a recognised and 'respected' hi-fi name (and expensive) it's automatically crap. As they say, how blissfully ignorant are the deluded!

Marco.

[Gromit]

The SDS has just arrived - many thanks for the speedy delivery Nick!

[Marco]

Initial impressions, Rich?

Marco.

[Gromit]

Initial impressions, Rich?

Marco.

Marco - don't think it really works that well with the Pioneer. Shame as I know it does da business on the Teccy.

It seems to suck out the bass, making it sound slow and indistinct, robbing it of impact - it's slightly 'mushy' even which was a surprise. I think the PL71's std mat musn't be too bad as putting it back on its own (after doing the VTA adjust etc) snaps things back into focus. Still, it was worth a try.

Btw - I tried the SDS on its own, with the Pioneer's mat and with a Ringmat. Best result was with the Pioneer mat - with the Ringmat it was awful, removed all the get up & go out of the system.

[Marco]

Thanks for your thoughts, Rich.

I thought as much. Like you say, it does the business on the 1210, but that's only because the platter, un-weighted, is as resonant as a bell. I suspect that the platter on the Pioneer is better damped and more 'solid' to start with. Unfortunately, there are no universal 'one fix for all' solutions in hi-fi.

I detest what the Ringmat does on any T/T. It's vastly overpriced bollocks, as far as I'm concerned. The 'Statmat' comes into the same category.

Keep us posted on how your 103 is performing as it beds in, and how you get on with adding more mass to your arm and headshell. I suspect that might prove to be more successful

Marco.

[Gromit]

Hi Marco - the Pioneer's platter is quite resonant, but where the 1210's platter goes 'ding' the 71's is more of a 'dong' (it's a slightly bright concert A flat actually)

Shame really - I had high hopes for it working well. I'll keep it for a little while anyway and have a fiddle with some other mat combinations. I know someone who'll lend me an Achromat - I've heard this do great things on an LP12 - and have some more mat-swapping fun.

As to the 103...

It's going very well - the thing which hit me with my first 103 (bought nearly-new as a stop-gap for a busted OC9 and ended up staying because it was so damn good) was it bass. This one's just the same...no susprise. In some ways I think I prefer it to the 103R (not tried nor heard a Pro) as it's ballsier and less...well..'clinical' would be the wrong word but somehow the R seems a little more civilised, losing some heart'n'soul in the process. I can't deny it's a bit more detailed though - possibly swings and roundabouts here.

I weighed the Isolator vs the mounting bolts - the Iso is 2.5g and the bolts (with the Sumiko finger lift) come to 2.7g so the Isolator was actually less massy. The Iso has its own mounting hardware built-in as it were.

Another thing to get done would be for my good friends at Noteworthy Audio to 'nude' the 103 for me - I've heard their nuded 103R in a NAS Dais and it sounded simply fabulous.

Time to get John to make me a fancy counterweight/shell-weight methinks.

[scoobs]

Rich, sorry the isomat hasn't worked out for you mate?
I am trying alternatve resonance damping at the moment, I've lined the inner rim of the platter with the black compond that comes with a Michell Orbe, I had it going spare, on top I just have a thin neoprene layer from my herbies to make the platter flush and to adhere to the achromat on top with the rdc puck, no tings here!

re the nude 103, have you considered having a bash at it yourself, Yomanze did it and fixed a thrunobulax weight on top, not to difficult by all accounts, just a scalpel and a steady hand. I should get my nude 103 sapphire back from Expert stylus in the next few weeks, but next time, I'll do the nuding myself.

[Gromit]

Hi Nick - no apology needed mate, it was always going to be worth trying the SDS.

I'm wondering if it's 'over-damping' the 71's platter - it's almost as though it robs the sound of life, making it laboured and slightly lazy even. I have heard of similar sonic traits from folk who've used very heavy rubber mats. I think for now I'm going to concentrate on the arm & cartridge match. The TT's good enough to leave well alone.

John - where are you? Me needeth one of your laaavely bits of brass.

[Marco]

Rich,

Hi Marco - the Pioneer's platter is quite resonant, but where the 1210's platter goes 'ding' the 71's is more of a 'dong' (it's a slightly bright concert A flat actually)

You sound like a bit of a 'ding-dong' expert so I won't argue!

Shame really - I had high hopes for it working well. I'll keep it for a little while anyway and have a fiddle with some other mat combinations. I know someone who'll lend me an Achromat - I've heard this do great things on an LP12 - and have some more mat-swapping fun.

Here's a thought... Have you tried using the SDS both ways round. I seem to remember reading on the instructions or on the website that there is a 'correct' way round for it to be used. I think there's a difference in the way the surface is finished on both sides, or something like that. Anyway, give it a go, if you haven't already done so. Also if you need a loan of an Achromat and the other guy doesn't deliver let me know. Mine is lying unused at the moment.

As to the 103...

It's going very well - the thing which hit me with my first 103 (bought nearly-new as a stop-gap for a busted OC9 and ended up staying because it was so damn good) was it bass. This one's just the same...no susprise. In some ways I think I prefer it to the 103R (not tried nor heard a Pro) as it's ballsier and less...well..'clinical' would be the wrong word but somehow the R seems a little more civilised, losing some heart'n'soul in the process. I can't deny it's a bit more detailed though - possibly swings and roundabouts here.

The quality of the bass is the best thing about the 103. Modern cartridges just don't do bass like it. I've tried Koetsus, Lyras, Transfigurations - all sorts of stuff and they all sound anaemic and lacklustre in comparison, although they were better at the top end. The only cartridge I've heard that's comparable in this area is the Audionote Io, which also uses Alnico magnets like the DL-103, and the Ortofon SPU also has similar 'heft'. I've found that whenever Alnico magnets come into the equation either in cartridges or speakers there is a certain magic in the presentation, why I don't know...

The only difference between the standard 103 and 103R is the 6N copper coils precision wound to the cantilever shaft. This brings out extra detail, better imaging and lower-frequency precision, but I don't feel that any of the standard 103s "balls" or "soul" has been lost in the process. After listening to the 'R', switching back to the standard 103 results in a slightly opaque, unconvincing sound. For me the 103R is just a 103, but better, and the Pro version takes this further to another level. You really must listen to the Pro sometime!

I weighed the Isolator vs the mounting bolts - the Iso is 2.5g and the bolts (with the Sumiko finger lift) come to 2.7g so the Isolator was actually less massy. The Iso has its own mounting hardware built-in as it were.

Interesting. The bottom line is that the Isolator is doing something positive in your system so I'd leave it there for the time being. It's a scandal what Len Gregory charges for that thing, though, considering what it's made of!

Another thing to get done would be for my good friends at Noteworthy Audio to 'nude' the 103 for me - I've heard their nuded 103R in a NAS Dais and it sounded simply fabulous.

Time to get John to make me a fancy counterweight/shell-weight methinks.

Scoobs will tell you the benefits of 'nuding' the 103, as he's had it done to his Pro. Did you watch the video on the 'Nuding a 103' thread?

The brass c/w and headshell weight are no-brainers, dude

Have you sent John a PM or email? He does get busy from time to time, but he will get back to you A.S.A.P.

Marco.