Technics 1210 internal regulation mods

[Reid Malenfant]

You can get tighter wound windings by hand winding using a machine Marco. As each turn or two is added they can be gently knocked together so as to leave no gaps & thus get rid of one source of transformer noise. If the windings can't move they can't rattle or buzz

[Mike_New]

ok, that makes sense however, as I'm not a fan of anything "in line" how does this sound as an option.

using a quality relay with mains rated contacts that can be controlled by a simple timer circuit. An "inrush current suppressor" (a specific device or could be a resistor maybe???) could be placed in series with the primary windings. Once the initial start up has taken place, it could be shorted out effectively bypassing it.

Hi Ian,

Yes your suggestion is a possible solution, allbeit a somewhat in-elegant one for a HiFi application. What do you have against current inrush suppressors?? Another better option would be to use solid state AC switches, and these are no longer expensive animals.

[Marco]

Hi Mark,

You can get tighter wound windings by hand winding using a machine Marco. As each turn or two is added they can be gently knocked together so as to leave no gaps & thus get rid of one source of transformer noise. If the windings can't move they can't rattle or buzz

Cool, cheers - I get that

Aside from reduced noise in the listening environment, I was wondering how the advantages of hand-winding with transformers would impact on audio performance, and in what way?

I'm thinking here mainly of output transformers (these presumanbly shouldn't buzz as there is no voltage going through them, no?), rather than mains transformers.

Marco.

[Reid Malenfant]

Aside from reduced noise in the listening environment, I was wondering how the advantages of hand-winding with transformers would impact on audio performance?

I'm not sure it would with regards to a power supply transformer other than to prevent it from intruding on the listening experience due to noise. On the other hand a transformer carrying audio such as a valve output transformer needs to be wound as precisely as possible to minimise leakage inductance. Interwinding capacitance may play a part as well, but i don't know a lot about this side of things, never looked into it

[Marco]

On the other hand a transformer carrying audio such as a valve output transformer needs to be wound as precisely as possible to minimise leakage inductance.

Churz, dude. That sounds as good a reason as any why hand-wound output transformers on a valve amp would offer better performance than those made by a machine, but then I suppose it depends on who is doing the winding!

I'll be interested to see what Paul (and perhaps Nick G or Leo?) thinks on this matter

Marco.

[UV101]

So Paul.............

Will you be selling your transformers seperately?

[Paul Hynes]

Hi Marco,

Mark is right about the mechanical issues with loose windings. There is also an electrical problem with them too. The vibrating loose windings induce varying electrical interference signals, in sympathy with the mechanical vibrations, into adjacent moving wires due to mutual coupling. Think of it as the electrical analogy of mechanical vibrations, then it is easy to see how important it is to minimise the problem. The target is to get rid of noise and interference rather than allow the power supply to generate it’s own interference because something has not been manufactured to the required quality level.

Mike,

I believe it can be tricky to switch transformers on consistently without risking core saturation using solid-state AC switches (Inteligent Triacs) due to the fact that the voltage and current waveforms can be out of phase at the moment of energising the primary. Because of this, switching on at the zero voltage point on the mains waveform is not a good thing. It will create interference and cause current surges up to 40 times the steady state condition with core saturation problems. I am not up with current technology in the field of solid-state AC switches, and things may be different now with new knowledge improving control systems, but it is worth checking this out because I believe transformer core saturation is something that should be avoided as it stops the transformer behaving properly.

Ian,

I do sell the transformers separately for £100 plus insured carriage and packing of £15 in the UK.

Regards
Paul

[UV101]

What could I expect to hear using a better transformer as opposed to a larger VA std toroid configured as I suggested previous?

I ask purely because I am looking to be subjective. As I stated previously, I plan to mod further. At this point I could put the money toward a bearing upgrade or even towards another arm. I plan to machine a couple of hardwood bodies to try with the Denon and it will definitely end up with the expert stylus company who sorted another 103 for me about 20 years ago (My old boss at Ashtead TV is a friend Wyndham - I remember seeing his electrostats and some other incredible kit at his house too!) Sadly I managed to destroy that cart he sorted for me during a "cleaning incident"

I guess what i am saying is, at this moment in time, the PSU as it stands is clearly significantly better than is was. I will run 2 or 3 regs in the TT within the next few weeks, but where should I look to spend £ next?

[MCRU]

Quote:- but where should I look to spend £ next? __________________

Can the Achromat be bettered?

My own Technics journey does not involve a new bearing or platter, I have put an Oyaide mat and stabilizer on the stock platter and a new PSU which I just fitted tonight and now it's sounding as if it cannot really sound any better!

I took the blue horizon mat off and funnily with my new PSU it sounds better without it, the RB300 and Nagoaka MP150 seem well suited to each other.

I know its expensive but the Oyaide mat is quite exceptional on the stock platter.

Tomorrow I am going to get some oak cone feet made to try instead of or as well as the Isonoe feet.

[Paul Hynes]

Ian,

You would be blessed with no mechanical noise and, from past experience with a variety of audio equipment, the effect of removing a layer of electrical interference caused by winding rattle results in a more stable musical presentation. Also removing core saturation effects allows the music to breathe dynamically in other audio electronics, and I see no reason why this should not be the case with the SL1200 control circuitry.

One thing I have found with transformers is that you get what you pay for. For example, earlier this year I removed a set of these high performance transformers from my system power amplifiers to help a trade customer meet a show deadline with a power supply for the Virtue Audio 2 power amplifier. The temporary replacements were some of the “off the shelf” range generally available for a quarter of the price. The wife and sprog immediately asked what I had done to the sound system as it sounded edgy and aggressive particularly on complex dynamic material. The mechanical noise was very apparent particularly during quiet musical passages. Hell, it even annoyed me with no music playing. We all found it quite annoying to listen to music with these low cost transformers in place and even a month of burn-in failed to alleviate the problem. When the replacement high performance transformers I had ordered arrived, I installed them, and the sound system was back to the performance we had missed so much. The low cost transformers are now used as door stops, which is a reasonable application for them. For those interested in boating and yachting they would also make good boat anchors.

However I cannot tell you how much bang for your buck you will get using the high performance transformer compared to the other upgrades you are considering, as I haven’t tried a bearing or arm upgrade yet. The transformer is relatively inexpensive compared to the other upgrades you are considering if cash flow is tight.

Regards
Paul