But if you want to avoid heavily DJ used gear, then why go for a tt meant for DJ use

[Welder]

Ultralyd.
Yep, this is a time bubble; quaint isn’t it

Just out of interest, what would you have recommended in that price range?

“I guess it was a mistake by me to join in here without researching what this place was about.”

Yep, you’re right; always a mistake to join any forum until you’ve read the relevant riot acts and got some knowledge of who is who and what the forum is about

“I better search for communities dealing with people having more experience and higher level of gear then.”

This should be an interesting quest given many here have been listening to Hi Fi a great many years,. It’s an age thing. It may not bring wisdom but it does bring experience, even in a bubble.

I would love to read what sort of gear you think is higher or lower than the equipment some of the contributors here have, or have had.
Oh, of course, you wouldn’t know would you, you didn’t bother to find out

Do I think the Technics is the last word in record decks? Definitely not; perhaps you could nominate your favorite?

[Marco]

Hi John,

Good post.

Do I think the Technics is the last word in record decks? Definitely not.

Neither do I. No-one is saying that it's the "last word"; merely that when modified it can compete, soncially, with some very expensive and renowned 'hi-end' T/Ts. I have (extensive) personal experience of this, as have others here.

As you were... I simply wanted to attend to your little inconsistency - hope you don't mind

Marco.

[Welder]

Good grief no i dont mind at all Marco........
I've only heard one Technics deck to my knowledge. I beleive it was unmodded and it sounded fine to me.
I've always been a suspended sub chassis sort myself but i can appreciate they're not the easiest decks to keep in tune.
Tbh, i dont think there were many direct drive Hi Fi decks about when i started out

[Marco]

Hi John,

I've only heard one Technics deck to my knowledge. I beleive it was unmodded and it sounded fine to me.
I've always been a suspended sub chassis sort myself but i can appreciate they're not the easiest decks to keep in tune.

Cool, and there's nothing wrong with that. I agree about the keeping in tune aspect. I just find that most non-'high mass' belt-drive T/Ts sound rather woolly and bloated compared to good direct-drives, which are normally tighter and more 'incisive' sounding, and personally I absolutely hate obvious coloration in vinyl replay.

Tbh, i dont think there were many direct drive Hi Fi decks about when i started out

Probably not in this country - and most of them would've been crap. Some of the truly awful 'cheap 'n' cheerful' D/D turntables which flooded the UK market in the 70s and 80s, often as part of 'midi systems', and the like, did the reputation of direct-drive no favours whatsoever!

Marco.

[Welder]

Ah well, if you don’t like turntable colouration you’ll be wanting to listen to CD’s or computer based audio then
(Dodges the bricks)

Seriously though, I would agree with you in general; platter mass was always a problem for suspended sub chassis designs; too heavy and the springs needed killed the dynamics.
I took my Thorens platter into work and machined two small grooves on the inside of the vertical platter wall and inserted a brass ring in one and a rubber compound in the other.
This of course meant a bit of rebalancing; never completely confident I got it right. But to my ears at least it improved the sound.
The Thorens upgraded springs were an improvement but the quality control wasn’t that great imo. Ideally one needed a spring specific to each mounting particularly if one takes into account the use of a heavier arm for a mc cartridge.
Those wedge plastic washers didn’t help much either. I replaced those with brass.
I did eventually get it fairly tuneful sounding but not in the chipboard box.
Tufnol arm board was good as well; mentioned this elsewhere.
I preferred the Thorens to the Linn Sondeck in its original guise which is all I could afford.

It’s odd really but I tended to stick to a deck I knew and mod it rather than start from scratch with a direct drive for example

[MartinT]

If Linn had bought that Technics DD motor on an OEM basis (as Ivor Tiefenbrun has alluded to), it would all have been so different.

For my part, I came from a Roksan Xerxes / SME IV / AT OC9 / EAR 834P setup and I swear I never, once, had as much fun (or fidelity) from playing records as I do now. Isn't that what it's all about?

[John]

I heared Marcos 1210 and was very impressed, it performed at a similar level to my VPI Reference superscoutmaster. To be honest its so hard to judge as such different systems, but at least I now understand why some people are passionate about this deck, but like Chris I have no real desire to go down this route

[Spectral Morn]

I am certainly not saying and neither is Marco that the Technics is the best TT out there. There are no doubt a fair few TTs out there which are better.

However I think the fundamental issue here is cost per pound. You can still pick up a good nick S/H 1200 for £250 +. At that price + an Ortofon MM cart or similar the 1200/1210 is far better imho than a £250 + same MM cart brand new Project or Rega.

Once you go above £1000 or so those TTs start to do some things that a Technics does not do....NB in standard form. However once you start addressing the issues that a standard 1200/1210 has (well known so I won't bore people by listing them) the gap starts to widen again.

A fully tricked out 1200/1210 does according to many here give very respected expensive TTs a very bloody nose. Note I don't say that I have heard that yet. I am pretty sure based on what I have heard so far that a fully modded 1200 will be a very scary proposition re how much it costs compared to many expensice TTs....note please I say many, not all.

When I hear my fully modded 1200 I will of course share my experiences at that time, honestly and fairly.

Finn's attitude is really very telling. Reading between the lines he is basically saying that if its not crazy dear its not worth talking about.

I have spent 20+ years listening to all kinds of gear cheap and dear and imho/e you do get better sound the more you spend but you very quickly hit a ceiling whereby the differences and improvements reduce as you go further up the price banding.

The jump in sound quality (assuming a matched sympathetic system) between budget and high end can be massive (less so in a non-sympathetic system) but the differences between say £5000 and £10000 items is less so [still a difference, though smaller than between budget and the £5000 item] if you can afford to buy it and justify it) However imhe the differences once you pass £10000 + gets less and less, still there to be heard but frankly you need big/deep wallets to do it and well I don't personally know how you can justify buying a £80000 TT or anything else at that price point. However that's your decision not mine to make and you are free to do it....no crime has been committed. However cost alone does not mean any thing unless synergy is at play between components and the room.

Finn you do not need to have a Technics TT or any other item on AOS to be part of this community ( I know AOS can appear a bit of clique but it is a fairly broad church but it does have lots of members who like Technics, Tannoy, Beresford etc. That has only happened as people join who are of like mind or having tried it out then agree...what's wrong with that ? Nothing) , but stating that only having expensive gear is worth while is imho arrogant and willy waving of the highest order. No one should ever wave the cost of an item in front of someone else that is just very poor behaviour imho.

You also imply that because AOS is not full of £200,000 + system owners then it is not the place for you. That is a plain crazy attitude imho. You join a forum to get to know people, have fun and stick around for those reasons and to share and learn about gear and music (music is very important here) not because its a millionaires system marina. AOS welcomes the budget system user and the multi thousands of pounds system owners/users and every one in between.

Take a look at my systems in the Gallery section of the forum and elsewhere in the forum to see what kind of gear I own. Do I wave it in peoples faces or make a big deal about it ? No I don't, because to do so is very rude. I spend and spent my money in the pursuit of the sort of sound I like just as you have. You are in a special rare position to buy what you can buy just as I am at my level and the other members who can't (though might love to) at their level. This forum is about having a good time, sharing experience and knowledge and not judging others based on what they have or don't have. Bottom line AOS is about enjoying music and we all go about that differently.....though there are some similarities in approach and systems.

You may think you have been slapped down for what you said about the Technics TT but its not about that. Your post in Ledgie's thread was rude and poorly worded it came across as "Why would you want one of those, they're crap"

It would have been different if you had offered a few alternatives.....however in saying that Ledgie was not asking for that, he was asking if someone might sell him a Technics 1200.

Oh yes Finn Fantasy I don't think so, my opinions are based on direct experience (you can disagree) but I and many others here, are I can assure you not deluded or deluding ourselves re the Technics 1200/1210.


Nuff said



Regards D S D L

[DSJR]

I think Finn should remember that Ken Kessler reviewed the SL1200 Gold version in HiFi news well over twelve years ago (IIRC) and was bowled over by the refined presentation the STOCK ARM had with a Lyra (Lydian Beta I think from memory).

Lets be honest here. So much expensive Top End audio gear is bought by the eyes, egos and empty wallets, there's no way a current model Techie can cut it in the company of a £40K turntable, no matter how good or bad it is - the Techie just isn't flash or expensive enough. An otherwise identical model costing £10K with fancy plinth and called the SP10 Signature (or something equally snooty) would be far better thought of by these people, even if it didn't sound any better at the end of the day.

[Spectral Morn]

I think Finn should remember that Ken Kessler reviewed the SL1200 Gold version in HiFi news well over twelve years ago (IIRC) and was bowled over by the refined presentation the STOCK ARM had with a Lyra (Lydian Beta I think from memory).

Lets be honest here. So much expensive Top End audio gear is bought by the eyes, egos and empty wallets, there's no way a current model Techie can cut it in the company of a £40K turntable, no matter how good or bad it is - the Techie just isn't flash or expensive enough. An otherwise identical model costing £10K with fancy plinth and called the SP10 Signature (or something equally snooty) would be far better thought of by these people, even if it didn't sound any better at the end of the day.

Agreed 100%


Regards D S D L