Accuphase e212 or Accuphase e211 or Krell 400xi?

[RoboCopper]

Hi,
Which one of these I should for best sound?
Accuphase e212 or e211 or Krell 400xi?
All are obtainable for the similar price.
I am looking for open, wide soundstage, pronounced mids, fast, tight bass, clean treble. Musical amp for longer listening too.

Any info is appreciated.

[DSJR]

The krell I think, especially if it's a used one 'cos the second hand value plummets nicely to its true new US value (around £1200-1300). The 400xi eats a Naim for breakfast, although the latter sells because it's a Naim

Accuphase (and current Luxman) amps all seem to me all be fur coat and no knickers - beautiful and lavishly specified with that legendary build and "feel," but sounding very uninspiring compared to UK home grown amps like a Rega Elicit, LFD or Croft, let alone a Sugden.....

Just my views, of course but ask HiFi dave, as he's had 'em all at some point...

[RoboCopper]

So you are suggesting Krell 400xi over Accuphase e2xx?
Which one has tighter bass? Which one has more pronounced mids?
How do I ask HiFi Dave?

Thanks for input

[John]

As always best to hear in your system
Sorry not very helpful I know

[RoboCopper]

Yes, we both know, but sometimes it is not possible when you have too many choices

[DSJR]

PM hifi dave on here, or phone him at Radlett Audio -

http://www.radlettaudio.co.uk/equipment.html

Like most here, I have no way of measuring these amps, but Krell have always designed their amps to cope well with low impedance loads, allowing good current flow. Over the previous 300 model, there was more natural warmth and no "clinical" quality which the 300 could suffer from if the interconnects weren't just right.

I have no idea where you're going to hear new Accuphase stuff these days [edit - AMPS] in the UK, but by experience, it's a bit of a mugs eyeful - not a bad product by any means, but certainly aspirational/cachet based rather than a truly high achiever comensurate with the looks, finish, feel and especially price. Indeed, from recent memory, Krell sells for almost double the US prices in the UK and has a certain cachet accordingly.

I can't be more specific, but there are decent audio items and lavish, luxury audio items and the two aren't always compatible. As much of the pleasure of luxury stuff is the pleasure of owning it and the feeling that you have something few others can afford.

You know, you won't believe me, but I reckon the top Cambridge power amp at £1200 or so would comfortably out-perform all of them, the gentle presentation being as much a lack of "edgy" distortions rather than a characteristic of "tone."

For a great expensive option that should really achieve, then Manley or EAR (well known) or Tube Distinctions (known by a select few ) would be where I'd look (PM Anthony TD to see what he has to offer)...

[RoboCopper]

Thanks for the infos, will have to do some further research on specified brands and models.
I also contacted Dave, so thanks for that advice as well

[The Grand Wazoo]

Accuphase (and current Luxman) amps all seem to me all be fur coat and no knickers - beautiful and lavishly specified with that legendary build and "feel," but sounding very uninspiring compared to UK home grown amps like a Rega Elicit, LFD or Croft, let alone a Sugden.....
...............but by experience, it's a bit of a mugs eyeful - not a bad product by any means, but certainly aspirational/cachet based rather than a truly high achiever comensurate with the looks, finish, feel and especially price........
I can't be more specific, but there are decent audio items and lavish, luxury audio items and the two aren't always compatible. As much of the pleasure of luxury stuff is the pleasure of owning it and the feeling that you have something few others can afford.

Well, not in reference to amplifiers, but when auditioning many different CD players several years ago I chose the one I thought sounded closest to my idea of real music. My second criteria was how it was built - I tend to keep components for a long time and expect them to work when I switch them on.

Not because of how it felt or looked (I actually dislike gold coloured hi-fi).
And most certainly not because of the price tag or how I felt it would make me feel about myself or how others perceived me.

I preferred the Accuphase for how it sounded, both in a dealers system and on a week long home loan. My wife preferred it for reasons of sound quality too, so we bought it.

Dave, I bow to your great experience and knowledge but sometimes you have an incredibly frustrating way of belittling equipment that just doesn't seem to have worked for you, for whatever reason. If you don't like it, why can't you just say it's not for you? If you were actively in the trade today, would you not suggest that Mr RoboCopper should have a listen for himself to try & decide?

[Steve Toy]

I've yet to hear an Accuphase amp do tight and fast bass except into the speaker loads that a decent valve amp could cope with and probably do better.

I agree that they do timing and coherence rather well - it's in the name and the mids tend to be superb.

[Nick]

Sounds to me like the Krell would fit the bill for the attributes you are seeking.

However I also disagree with Dave regarding Accuphase/Luxman amplifiers.

For one thing the current Luxman amplifiers are a whole different kettle of fish to the Accuphase models.

The Accuphase range majors, IMO, on natural sound albeit lacking that hi-fi punch that so many seem to crave. To my ears they do exhibit a slight bass tubbiness which may line up with Steve's observation. This doesn't detract from the lovely midband and natural treble.

The Luxmans, I speak here of the class A jobbies, are slightly more vivid than the Accuphase equivalents with a tighter bass. Still with that open midband and natural treble. They are also way more powerful than the specs would lead you to believe, although as they go beyond the Class A cited spec I believe they drift into Class A/B.

One thing they do both offer is useable tone controls, shock horror

The Krell sound to me is more immediately impressive but, for me, over the long term that trick soon wears off.

Incidentally I don't think the smaller integrateds are specced to deal with difficult loads as well as the behemoths further up the range.

I have owned Krell in the past and currently have a Luxman L-550 AII.

I do agree with Dave in that the Krell 400 is much less clinical than the 300, looks nicer too.

I guess it depends what you are looking for and the best way is to try before you buy.

As always YMMV