Tell Me Something............Anything!

[Barry]

Chestnuts they may be, but are germane to the discussion.

What you have now done, and I suspect you intended to do, is to raise the aspect of religion within a culture. That is a different discussion and one difficult to argue rationally and calmly.

All I can say is that if you think you love someone but can't accept their faith, then IMO you don't love them. So I can't imagine you falling for a devout Muslim woman who would be uncomfortable venturing out in public spaces without wearing, in her opinion, appropriate dress.

[Mikeandvan]

Chestnuts they may be, but are germane to the discussion.

What you have now done, and I suspect you intended to do, is to raise the aspect of religion within a culture. That is a different discussion and one difficult to argue rationally and calmly.

All I can say is that if you think you love someone but can't accept their faith, then IMO you don't love them. So I can't imagine you falling for a devout Muslim woman who would be uncomfortable venturing out in public spaces without wearing, in her opinion, appropriate dress.

Exactly, radically different cultures, which goes beyond a lot more than just female attire. That attire represents something on the level of being a nun here in the West.

[Barry]

Unfortunately, in my experience ALL religions are to some extent misogynistic.

[Pigmy Pony]

Unfortunately, in my experience ALL religions are to some extent misogynistic.

The Church of England has only permitted female bishops for the last ten years, but that does show that some change is possible. Though women cannot become catholic priests and I read that this is a matter of divine law and cannot be changed.

[Barry]

It is not just a matter of women not being able to officiate in religious ceremonies, they are treated differently in places of worship: where they sit; how close they are allowed to approach sacred objects, etc..

It is not only the Abrahamic religions that display this segregation, other world religions do so as well. Some of the reasons why are understandable, if unacceptable; others are just fundamentally dogmatic IMO, with no rational justification.

[Macca]

The Church of England has only permitted female bishops for the last ten years, but that does show that some change is possible. Though women cannot become catholic priests and I read that this is a matter of divine law and cannot be changed.

The Pope can change anything, but that's unlikely to happen. I don't know any Catholics, male or female, who want to see female priests.

I mean it's like a club, you don't like the rules, join a different club. It doesn't actually affect anyone in any way, except for a handful of women who for some reason I don't understand, want to be Catholic priests.

I do actually know one of the Cardinals although not seen him in decades, friend of the family. Was hoping he might have got bumped up to Pope, but it was a long shot.

[Macca]

It is not just a matter of women not being able to officiate in religious ceremonies, they are treated differently in places of worship: where they sit; how close they are allowed to approach sacred objects, etc..

No aware of any such segregation in Catholicism except for the officiating thing. Women can sit where they like and interact with the sacred objects where applicable.

And C of E is pretty much anything goes, even in High Church. Nothing worse than going to christenings in C of E since they always have the beardy bloke with guitar and the happy clappy stuff.

Having said that it's all dying out in this country anyway. The church attached to the primary school I attended is now luxury apartments. There's now only one Catholic church in the whole district, there used to be five or six.

Not just the Catholics either. The local Synagogue got bulldozed and in its place - luxury apartments.

[Barry]

I didn't confine my remarks to Christianity alone. The treatment of women is different in all of the Abrahamic religions, as it is in Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism etc.

[Mikeandvan]

I think some perspective is needed here. In a mosque men and women can't even attend together, and in some of their public gatherings they rarely mix, this is off the scale misogyny, something we left behind centuries ago, or we never even had. Immigration from Muslim countries is the biggest trojan horse ever, we've basically signed our own suicide note. Some of them are openly hostile too, admittedly those are probably a minority, but they're here, and they're angry.

[Barry]

If by "together", you mean in the same space, then you are right. But then the same applies to worshipers in Judaism: men sit downstairs and women sit upstairs in the synagogues.
Hence my grouping them under the heading 'Abrahamic'.

If you want criticise Islam, you could always point out in Sharia law, evidence provided by a woman is reckoned to be worth a third of that of a man.