Car (or bike) Chat!

[Barry]

Who are the "they" in your final sentence? Car drivers?

[struth]

Who are the "they" in your final sentence? Car drivers?

presumeably the govt and the rich...

[Barry]

That's what I thought, but it wasn't clear.

[AJSki2fly]

....and currently is about 19p per kWh. In a Tesla Model 3 each kWh gives around 3.5 to 4 miles of travel. In a Renault Zoe each kWh may give 4 miles or more - though that depends on how hard the cars are driven.

Assume our round trip is going to be about 1400 miles. So in TM3 that would require perhaps 1400/3.5 kWh = 400 kWh. We could get the first 200 miles at 20p per kWh by charging up at home, so the rest of the journey - 1200 miles - would require 343kWh of charge.
Some of the public charges are high - well over 60p per kWh. So the total cost could be £57*0.2 + 343*0.6 = £218 or even more as some of the chargers charge more than 60p per unit, and some also charge ridiculously high penalty charges for overstaying.

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Don't get the TM3 stuff, why would you not use Telsa chargers, there are plenty of Tesla charge points down this way which are now at around 43p/Kwh.

200miles at 20p per mile is 57Kwh = £11.42, yes, then 1200 miles 343Kwh of charge, 43p/Kwh so £148. So £159.42 to do 1400 miles, which is £0.11/miles. So to compare a ICE petrol cars that do 40mpg will need 35 gallons of petrol at around £6.86 for Unleaded(low grade) which is £239.75. So cheaper on Tesla network. Assume 50mpg for a diesel car, then its £6.95/gall so 28 galls for 1400 miles will cost £194.60. So the Tesla is still cheaper.

[dave2010]

Don't get the TM3 stuff, why would you not use Telsa chargers, there are plenty of Tesla charge points down this way which are now at around 43p/Kwh.

200miles at 20p per mile is 57Kwh = £11.42, yes, then 1200 miles 343Kwh of charge, 43p/Kwh so £148. So £159.42 to do 1400 miles, which is £0.11/miles. So to compare a ICE petrol cars that do 40mpg will need 35 gallons of petrol at around £6.86 for Unleaded(low grade) which is £239.75. So cheaper on Tesla network. Assume 50mpg for a diesel car, then its £6.95/gall so 28 galls for 1400 miles will cost £194.60. So the Tesla is still cheaper.

Firstly we still don't know if we can use the TM3 - as Tesla are still faffing about and not fixing the rear light issue. There is no point in taking the car for its due MOT, as it will fail immediately on the light issue, and that does need to be fixed. We would certainly use the Tesla chargers if we get the car fixed so that it can be driven on this trip. I have checked the chargers along the route and several are at the high end of the price range. If we take Zoe instead then at the allowed Tesla chargers - there are a few - the charge costs would probably be higher. Some of the other chargers - which would work for that car - and some which used to be free - are now relatively expensive.

You may be right that if we hit lucky the whole trip could be done for less than an ICE car, but right now that is uncertain. One of the supposed benefits of running an EV is that running costs are lower - but even with the optimistic estimates of "fuel" savings my calculations suggest that the financial "savings" do not offset the high marginal price over an ICE car. Most people who have a home charger and who don't do long trips will get a significant financial benefit from EVs, but that fails if many longer trips are done.

Do I personally favour EVs? Yes - certainly - because of the environmental impact, and the inhererent "automatic" transmission - no gear changing - and a few other factors, but where some organisations are trying to persuade people that EVs are cheaper to run and that offsets the higher initial costs I would suggest that that is dubious, as energy suppliers are adjusting their prices.

Right now however we are still maintaining options B,C,D etc., as so far the useless Tesla service has failed to deliver - though maybe I'm getting closer to a result. Someone suggested I drove to a Tesla service centre and deliberately blocked the entrance until I got satisfaction, but the nearest one is over 140 miles away, and I would probably "be in the wrong" if I adopted such a tactic.

[dave2010]

I own a Tesla Model Y. I recently went on holiday to S. Devon and Cornwall. I found Tesla Chargers were the cheapest and the price per kWh seems to vary during the day and possibly depending on location. At Camborne in Cornwall I was paying 56.5p and on another occasion the price was down to 43.5p per kWh. It was also 43.5p at M5 Exeter Services. In contrast, I had to charge a few times at the new Osprey charger at Buckfastliegh, Devon where I was ripped off at 95p per kWh.

Generally I expect to pay a similar travel cost to running an ICE when repeatably charging away from home. At home I’m on intelligent Octopus. Night charging at just 7.5p per kWh.

Indeed the Intelligent Otopus tarrif is good if you can get the 7.xp per kWh rate and keep your cars charged up. That is what we were on until recently, though the disparity between the peak rate and the cheap rate is significant. Now we have moved on to the Tracker rate [I didn't make the decision - perhaps it was premature] so now we get a flat rate per day, but it is variable, and we can decide whether to charge up, use appliances etc. once we know the daily rate. The reason for the change of tariff is that we were expecting to use more electricity, and also through the day due to our new ASHP. Our tariff switch may well have been premature, as after the initial set up of the ASHP which had us running it flat out for a couple of days to get the anti-freeze circulating - the ASHP now seems to be running at a low level. However as the weather gets colder we will need a tariff which lowers our costs due to the likelihood of significant near continuous power use during each day.

Hopefully the costs of running the ASHP will be significantly less than the cost of having to fill up an oil tank every few months. This doesn't completely isolate us from supply problems though, as if the electricity supply goes down we get no heating - but we wouldn't have done with the oil boiler anyway due to the pumps not working - but our backup for that eventuality is to burn logs in our log burner. Failing that we'll follow Dr Zhivago and burn the furniture!

[AJSki2fly]

Indeed the Intelligent Otopus tarrif is good if you can get the 7.xp per kWh rate and keep your cars charged up. That is what we were on until recently, though the disparity between the peak rate and the cheap rate is significant. Now we have moved on to the Tracker rate [I didn't make the decision - perhaps it was premature] so now we get a flat rate per day, but it is variable, and we can decide whether to charge up, use appliances etc. once we know the daily rate. The reason for the change of tariff is that we were expecting to use more electricity, and also through the day due to our new ASHP. Our tariff switch may well have been premature, as after the initial set up of the ASHP which had us running it flat out for a couple of days to get the anti-freeze circulating - the ASHP now seems to be running at a low level. However as the weather gets colder we will need a tariff which lowers our costs due to the likelihood of significant near continuous power use during each day.

Hopefully the costs of running the ASHP will be significantly less than the cost of having to fill up an oil tank every few months. This doesn't completely isolate us from supply problems though, as if the electricity supply goes down we get no heating - but we wouldn't have done with the oil boiler anyway due to the pumps not working - but our backup for that eventuality is to burn logs in our log burner. Failing that we'll follow Dr Zhivago and burn the furniture!

As I said the way to make it work, ASHP, is 20kwh batteries and power them up over night at 7.5p/kWh in the winter and run everything off batteries in the day,

Our total bill for the last year was £780, this includes EV charging int the winter, all heating, hot water and cookin and £180 for standing charge. If we had gas/electric like most the bill would have been £4k[emoji33]


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[Cotlake]

As I said the way to make it work, ASHP, is 20kwh batteries and power them up over night at 7.5p/kWh in the winter and run everything off batteries in the day,

Our total bill for the last year was £780, this includes EV charging int the winter, all heating, hot water and cookin and £180 for standing charge. If we had gas/electric like most the bill would have been £4k[emoji33]

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Interesting. What was the outlay on the battery system, including cost of fitting/commissioning, please?

[AJSki2fly]

We went for 2 SolarEdge 9.7kwh batteries, £5k rack and a 8kwh hybrid inverter £1.2k fitting was about £1.5 with cables etc.

Prices have come down a little a GivEnergy 9.5kwh battery can be had for £3.6k and inverter £1k. So should be able to do for around.

We peak in winter at around 25kwh per day usage when it coldest. I spent quite some time looking at our previous bills and working out what would meet our needs. Don’t forget that with the Solar PV we usually get some power in the day as well unless it is completely overcast, but Dec to Mar is pretty low.


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[dave2010]

The saga with Tesla continues. I am still certain that they are an absolutely appalling company.

Couldn't run a booze up in a brewery, or a bun fight in a bakery.

I'm interested in the batteries. No way I would go anywhere near Tesla for those, now. No way I would buy Tesla batteries after all the hassle I've had with the car - which incidentally may be off the road now for a month or two. Thanks Tesla!


Total incompetence. I can't get an MOT done up here in Scotland before 6th September, when we need the car - or at least a car. I can get an MOT done in Sheffield on 6th or 7th September, but there's no point in going for that unless I'm absolutely sure the car will pass.
With the problem with the driver's side rear lights it would certainly fail, and it's arguable whether I should even be driving it.

There are very few centres up near where we live which can cope with MOTs for EVs - there are some - but they are geared up to other brands. Even the larger outfits, such as Kwik Fit and Halfords which might be able to do an MOT on an EV are not able to offer earlier appointments.
Tesla itself does not do MOTs.

Overall this is grim.

I did ask when we bought the wretched thing how we could get service. "Oh - easy - just bring it into a service centre." "Yes, and what part of the nearest one is 140+ miles and the next is 175+ miles away don't you understand?" "Oh - no problem, we can send out a mobile technician."

Foolishly we agreed to this. In practice it doesn't happen, or hasn't happened so far. The only communication with Tesla service centres is via a phone app, and occasional robotic messages sent to our home phone. It seems deliberate to stop people actually getting the service they require.

Today I actually got to speak to a lovely lady, perhaps employed as a pacifier, who took some of my concerns on board, and indeed last week I also spoke to another adviser who appeared to be helpful. Amazingly these interactions have been recorded, so the Tesla "system" is aware of them, and there is a fragment of joined up organisation there, though we still haven't resolved the main issue.

Last week's service appointment didn't happen - we didn't get advance notice, or an apology. Other companies we've dealt with recently have also had problems with service, due to illness or other reasons, but at least they usually manage to phone or message us in advance to let us know that someone is sick and can't make it. That's not unreasonable, but Tesla .... No!

Oh - yes - for a high tech company - doesn't even seem to have minimal intelligence. The adviser I spoke to last week pointed out that we might not get further contact until today - because Monday "is a bank holiday". However Monday was not a bank holiday in Scotland, so why are people in Scotland undeserving of service on days when there isn't a bank holiday there?

No compensation for inconvenience ... and all this from a company run/owned/managed (??) at least partially by one of the richest men on the planet. Other companies do offer compensation for poor service, and actually provide it if asked, but presumably Tesla won't because it's not a service organisation. "No - we don't do that!"

No - you don't do very much, do you? !!!!