Car (or bike) Chat!

[Pigmy Pony]

[QUOTE=dave2010;1278477]

I have also escalated the issue back to Arnold Clark Renault who sold us the car and the charger was included as an enticement to buy - but no response from them either. Not much point in having freebies from sellers if they don't work, eh! Everyone is going to pass the buck - "not my fault, gov!"

Threaten to remove their crappy yellow sticker from your back window - they don't like that, and it may sting them into action. But if you do try to move the sticker be prepared for some hard graft, those bastards are stuck like shit to a blanket.

Nothing I've seen in these pages have made me think EVs are a good thing, so when they become compulsory I'll be making use of my bus pass and using supermarket deliveries.

[Macca]

It'll never happen in our lifetimes, bet any money.

They've got to upgrade the whole national grid if they want to supply 40 million vehicles with power all at the same time. How long is that going to take?

[struth]

It'll never happen in our lifetimes, bet any money.

They've got to upgrade the whole national grid if they want to supply 40 million vehicles with power all at the same time. How long is that going to take?

They are going to use the batteries in the cars to supply the grid at busy times. Cheap way to keep it going

[Pigmy Pony]

It'll never happen in our lifetimes, bet any money.

They've got to upgrade the whole national grid if they want to supply 40 million vehicles with power all at the same time. How long is that going to take?

Not to mention giving over huge swathes of Green Belt for "car parking" so that all those EVs can be charged while away from home. So I agree, by the time it becomes feasible I'll be past caring.

[Filterlab]

The government are just empty-headed dreamers, thinking it'll all just fall into place. Given that EVs in their current guise have been around for 13 years now, and really haven't taken much of the market at all, trying to get it all done and dusted by 2030 is nothing short of daydreaming.

The biggest problem is in the cities. There are millions of vehicles that are parked randomly on the streets nowhere near the owner's property, each of those will need a charging point, so that means every point will need the ability to attribute the cost to the correct person. Then there's the installation of 40 million charging points, the cabling alone would run into millions of miles.

Then there's the hook up cabling for each vehicle. All over the pavements would be trailing cables, getting tangled up with pushchairs and pensioners (people are always inconsiderate when it comes to tidiness off their property). Inevitably as the cost of copper skyrockets due to the amount required for all this cabling, the theft of cables would be exceptionally prevalent. So then an infrastructure would be necessary for repairs and replacements - but already as Dave has mentioned, it seems to be very troublesome to get a charger repaired already, and this is when the market should be shit hot and proactive in order to promote sales.

Whilst in essence I do believe EVs are excellent; economical, ecological and let's face it, fast, to get the whole country buying only EVs in 2030 is a joke. As most cars have a life of 10-15 years, the expectation is that almost all vehicles will be EVs by 2045, so the entire infrastructure has to be installed, reliable, working and without fault by then. It essentially has to be as reliable as an IC engine and a petrol station - which is a hard act to follow as frankly a modern car is a well polished tool.

[struth]

Marco is always polishing his

[Macca]

The government are just empty-headed dreamers, thinking it'll all just fall into place. Given that EVs in their current guise have been around for 13 years now, and really haven't taken much of the market at all, trying to get it all done and dusted by 2030 is nothing short of daydreaming.

No the government are cynics, that's why the target dates for these things are always years in the future. They set that target date because they know in all likelihood it will be some other administration's problem by the time it comes around.

In the meantime if questioned about their 'green credentials' they can say 'well look, we've set a target date, what more do you want?'

The empty headed dreamers are the ones who think it is somehow possible to combine a consumer economy and lifestyle with some sort of zero-pollution, eco-friendly, rural idyll when the two are mutually excusive. The real choice is to either say fuck it and carry on as we are, or go back to living in the bushes and eating berries and nuts.

[dave2010]

The biggest problem is in the cities. There are millions of vehicles that are parked randomly on the streets nowhere near the owner's property, each of those will need a charging point, so that means every point will need the ability to attribute the cost to the correct person. Then there's the installation of 40 million charging points, the cabling alone would run into millions of miles.

Why would 40 million charging points be required? That would assume perhaps a 1:1 ratio between vehicles and chargers. Many people would have chargers at home ( - but consider the reliability ..... !!!) which typically require no more than 15 metres of cable from the consumer unit to the charger, plus maybe another 3-5 metres to attach to the vehicle. That's about 80 times less cable than you have thought. That's also assuming that many people are still going to commute into cities - which happens in some - but is totally bonkers for cities like London, where many people use public transport.

Then there's the hook up cabling for each vehicle. All over the pavements would be trailing cables, getting tangled up with pushchairs and pensioners (people are always inconsiderate when it comes to tidiness off their property). Inevitably as the cost of copper skyrockets due to the amount required for all this cabling, the theft of cables would be exceptionally prevalent. So then an infrastructure would be necessary for repairs and replacements - but already as Dave has mentioned, it seems to be very troublesome to get a charger repaired already, and this is when the market should be shit hot and proactive in order to promote sales.

Dedicated areas for charging would be required which would reduce some of the issues re pushchairs and pensioners. These would probably be on the sites of existing petrol stations. Re stealing cables - yes - it probably will happen, though perhaps the hazards of taking cables while live would deter some. Idiots like the ones who try to bring down overhead railway cables or even high voltage grid cables can try to reach gold status in the Darwin awards.

Whilst in essence I do believe EVs are excellent; economical, ecological and let's face it, fast, to get the whole country buying only EVs in 2030 is a joke. As most cars have a life of 10-15 years, the expectation is that almost all vehicles will be EVs by 2045, so the entire infrastructure has to be installed, reliable, working and without fault by then. It essentially had to be as reliable as an IC engine and a petrol station - which is a hard act to follow as frankly a modern car is a well polished tool.

Reliability of EVs is yet to be tested - though I think they are reliable. Public charger reliability I'd put at lower than 50% currently, with some out of action, and many different types with next to no instructions or contact details as to how to use them. Even simple things like making sure that the displays are visible aren't dealt with. On dark days it is possible to read the instructions off the displays, but on sunny days those are completely unreadable. What is wrong with having printed instructions attached to the chargers? Oh - yes - I suppose one has to know all the variants and do searches on mobile phones for the instructions of the more esoteric ones. Then there are units which have to have an emergency reset button pressed to kick them back into life each time - something not known by every driver. Not a good thing. Some units have plug ends which are locked in, and getting them released can be tricky. Sometimes it's brute force, sometimes there are hidden buttons to press, and sometimes the locks are released by a key code or card action. One gradually builds experience of these - but it's basically pathetic.

Our Zoe recently had an annual "service" - cost about £120. What on earth was done? The only identifiable change was a new filter - cost about £20. No itemised invoice detail of what was done, or what checks were carried out. Not even a report on the brakes which is something which could wear or require adjustment. Oiling? Not sure. It did require an adjustment to a seat a little while back, as it was making a squeaky noise.

The Model 3 has not had any service at a depot, but has had to be reset a few times. It's still a love/hate car. At its best it's really lovely.

[Filterlab]

To answer the 40 million chargers question...

Homes
Workplaces
Hotels
Holiday lets
Car parks
Roadside parking
Service stations
Supermarkets

All these places need chargers, and really at home it's one per vehicle as most will need charging simultaneously. It's no good having one charger for multiple vehicles.

In the three houses next to and opposite mine, and including mine too, there are eleven cars, with more to come as kids grow up. Multiply that over just the households in the UK as at this year (let's assume 28,000,000): even if there are only an average of two cars per household, that's immediately 56,000,000 chargers, without the other places mentioned.

It'll need to be one serious network.

[struth]

yeah but very few folk will charge every night at home. still, there is about 25% of homes without off street parking. So thats a lot of other charging on street. Another issue will be sorting out who gets to use an on street or car park one. if you leave car and its charged, and you dont come back then no-one else can use it.
Then there is reliability, vandalism and theft of cables, which is apparently already quite high