CD transports - do they matter?

[Mr. C]

Fiver,

The transport will slowly taper off in the next few years I feel.
Getting the very best from true high def formats will not involve a red book transport!
CD transports cannot transmit High def data, also dac's which up-sample red book to these high sample and bit rates (8 or 9 bits to the stock 16), do this by adding dither and interpolating the data by 2.5 or 4.5 times the original sample rate 44100hz.
And are NOT true high def, as you are start from the basic red book at 16 bit/44.1khz.
You need to stream the dac with the raw high def data at these sample rates (so not use the ASRC inside the dac) to really demonstrate the format's true potential
I personally prefer 88.2khz and 176.4khz sample rates for me they work better.
Most studios have been recording in 24/32bit and 192 up to 354khz for long while now.
These 'raw format studio masters' are then down sampled to red book, in essence the difference between a red book cd and a High Def master is close to 100 times more data, therefore the resolution difference is massive, so is the sound quality.
You physically have a much bigger 'pot' to work with.
Now a lot of people are going to react, you can not hear that far up the frequency spectrum, waste of time etc.
How about the harmonic structure to the musical passage? 1st. 2nd, 3rd harmonics, this opens up a large debate on human hearing and the effects of frequencies upto 100khz .
Thats a different thread lol!
The bottom line is it really does make a difference and then some, however it does not stop you enjoying your CD's any the less.
Within 18 months a lot more commercially available HD server/capture devices will be present in the market, giving more choice and value to the populous (imho)

[purite audio]

Yesterday I finally got around to ordering a dedicated 'audio' pc , from Millenium Music, i have leaned heavily on the advice of both Mike Stahl ( Stahl-Tek ) and Mike Ritter, the pc will have pipe cooling , a Lynx 16aes soundcard ( to provide a low jitter signal ) and 'wavlab' software which is compatible with every high resolution format, I will run the output into my Stahl DAC.
The plan is to burn cd's with exact audio copy, and then compare the 'streamed' cd to the standard optical transport, through the same dac. I have also purchased 'reference recordings' 176.4 24bit master HRx discs ,and again to compare these to the standard cd copy , cost of the complete pc about £1600.

[Mr. C]

Keith,

Thats a good basic way to get started on this ladder, which will make you smile, is when you put the vinyl on, how 'ordinary it sounds'
Good luck

[purite audio]

Tony Hi, I will let you know how I get on, the current crop of 'music servers' like the Naim don't seem to offer too much for the price being charged! Keep in touch, regards Keith.

[Marco]

Getting the very best from true high def formats will not involve a red book transport!

Hi Tony,

As I'm sure you know, a good transport comes into its own when you play CDs, and for people with quite a few of them and who want to hear them at their best and can't be arsed ripping them all to a hard drive (count me in!) there will always be a need for a top-notch CDP (transport & DAC or whatever) regardless of what happens with computer audio.

As for "true high def formats", I shall reserve judgement until I hear them for myself. No doubt though they are good, but the reason I remain slightly sceptical is that I've heard similar things before said about up-sampling and SACD - both of which are reputed to offer higher resolution but to my ears sound artificial and 'processed' compared to standard Red Book and well recorded bog standard CD respectively.

Vinyl done well, particularly in conjunction with valves, is still the best sound I've heard yet with hi-fi. However one is always on a learning curve, so I remain open-minded as ever to alternative possibilities

Marco.

[Mr. C]

Keith,
The key is in the data transfer and the ability not to 'contaminate' the data at the pc/mac.

Marco,

As I mentioned, the cd transport will not disappear completely it will remain fear not!
Ripping of the cd's and being 'arsed' I agree to a point, that is personal and jewel cases ala' gate-folds are still something palpable to collect and will remain an important part of 'collecting music'. It is a younger generation thing, however a true bit for bit copy of a red book cd is just that, there will be new software available I suspect in the next 6 months or so that will be truly and utterly zero latency.
About 2 months I was putting the finishing touches to a very special transport which we have been working on, imho the unit in original form is 'without peer' an Esoteric P-01.
Easily the best digital transport we have worked on and completed.
I have a few friends in the telecommunication industry who are great music lovers and hifi fans, they were keen to hear the machine before it was shipped back to the far east.
One of gents has been using server based music for a good couple of years, and had been badgering for a listen to the methods of transferring data via different networks.
The upshot was simple, a direct a<>b between the P=01 and the digital drive method as we shall call it. Conclusion running both methods into 5 different dac's (ranging from a Pet Tec P1a to a Zanden) identical cables, system etc. level matched too.
The cd drive while superb without question (better than ANY other transport I have heard to date), just could not hold a candle to the DDS on red book, the high res formats were just another planet.
Here's one to try, for a taster, try an Acram DV137, use the analogue outputs into the same pre you use and play a true 24/96khz dvd audio disc against any £5K CDP and compare the differences, then ask yourself is the cd player worth the extra? To some it maybe.
I will not get into the valves/Vinyl debate, they can sound beautiful without question, as can digital and sound state, its personal preferences only.
Lots to look forward too in the coming months I feel!

[Marco]

Tony,

The upshot was simple, a direct a<>b between the P=01 and the digital drive method as we shall call it. Conclusion running both methods into 5 different dac's (ranging from a Pet Tec P1a to a Zanden) identical cables, system etc. level matched too.
The cd drive while superb without question (better than ANY other transport I have heard to date), just could not hold a candle to the DDS on red book, the high res formats were just another planet.

I'm sure that was the case, however as I wasn't there myself to hear it I shall reserve judgement until if or when I do.

Can you explain a bit more please what exactly this "digital drive method" is?

I mentioned valves and vinyl purely because superbly pressed, well recorded vinyl, reproduced through valves is currently my benchmark in terms of audio quality, and it is this that I would be using to judge against these "true hi def formats" of which you mention.

I'm never automatically seduced by technology - only what gets me closer to the sound and feel of live music and how voices and instruments are actually heard in reality. The sound of any piece of hi-fi equipment for me must be musical, not merely 'impressive' in a hi-fi sense in terms of ultimate detail retrieval or 'smoother' or whatever. That's why I don't like the up-sampling effect or SACD because to my ears both fall into the 'impressive but not musical category'.

I will only embrace new technology if it's better (i.e. it produces more musical results) than what we currently have. That's the bottom line for me.

But like you say, there are possibly some interesting times ahead

Marco.

[purite audio]

I don't see hi-res replacing my vinyl, I just see it as another alternative, I have quite a few cd's and I would like to get the most out of them, if ripping and streaming offers a small improvement I feel that would be worthwhile , re hi-res I just hope music companies release their original digital masters, and that the whole thing doesn't end up in another format war.
Re the data transfer everyone I have spoken to believes a very low jitter signal is key and then obviously a superb DAC. As soon as my new PC arrives I will post my thoughts, Keith.

[Togil]

The 20,000Hz limit doesn't matter as otherwise why does so much equipment rolled off in the treble sound better, also live FM radio can be superb ( better than Vinyl ) However the sampling rate of 44.1 was a mistake.

[Yomanze]

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