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Thread: Valve amps, great with Jazz, shit with everything else.

  1. #31
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPS View Post
    Yes I realise that, I was just explaining the reasons..
    To be fair many valve amps are the same.. the fact that the speakers are good with jazz proves to me they are better than most, sort the amp and they will more than lightly be better at more complex music
    I don't know, if they measure anything like the Lexus Signature I linked to earlier I wouldn't have them if they were being given away free at petrol stations. But there are a lot of terrible speakers out there so they may well be better than most.

    Jazz is a big genre and some of it will demand high standard of reproduction so it depends what sort of jazz we are talking about. Three or four instruments, playing acoustically, well recorded, that's not difficult to get sounding 'good' on pretty much anything, hence the popularity of it for show demos. A complex mix is a different matter.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  2. #32
    Join Date: Dec 2008

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    Gotta agree with the OP on this one. Back around 2003 I was using an Audion 300B SE amp with Audio Note AZ-2's the source being an Arcam CD player and an Alphason Sonata. I realised quite quickly that jazz, female vocal and acoustic music sounded bloody wonderful. In fact it was probably the best I'd heard up to that point. The big problem I had was that I listened mainly, as now, to heavy electronic music and Prog Rock. So once again I dumped the lot and re-invented the bloody wheel for the nth time. Does it ever end...?

  3. #33
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

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    I'm Adrian.

    Default Valve amps, great with Jazz, shit with everything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Yes, there is no problem at all with quality valve amps although they tend to sound indistinguishable from quality solid state amps IME which isn't what some people are looking for.

    But in this case the amplifier is a budget effort, the speakers have an FR that is all over the shop, it's no mystery why the performance is not consistent across all types of music.
    Martin, I do not understand your view that an S500is a budget effort, it certainly was not considered so in its day, I purchased mine in late 80’s for £650 and at the time was considered quite a bit for an amp and had good reviews and well thought of, in fact if you allowed for inflation it would probably be in the £4K area if built and sold today.

    This is quite an interesting and informative view of it http://www.trioda.com/index.php/en/e...ons-series-500
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

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  4. #34
    Join Date: Jun 2015

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    Mike did you ever try the Kef 104/2? The "conjugate load" crossover means they are a reasonable load for a 40wpc EL34 amp and they are not laid back like the Model 2s you had.

    I used them with my opera valve amp and they rocked with Deep purple and the like as well as jazz. I'd try that first before getting a SS amp. Hopefully you could still keep them if you still didn't like the valve sound, they work well with Class A SS too.

    Just watch out for the foam rot in the woofers. If you can't find one already sorted, the single wire version is much easier to fix as just the doughnuts are foam, the surrounds are rubber in those, but they are both foam in the biwire version.

    Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk

  5. #35
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    Martin, I do not understand your view that an S500is a budget effort, it certainly was not considered so in its day, I purchased mine in late 80’s for £650 and at the time was considered quite a bit for an amp and had good reviews and well thought of, in fact if you allowed for inflation it would probably be in the £4K area if built and sold today.

    This is quite an interesting and informative view of it http://www.trioda.com/index.php/en/e...ons-series-500
    Although £650 in 1989 is only £1850 in today's money, not £4k, I do take your point. They weren't giving them away. For comparison a Radford Revival STA25, which I would suggest is superior to the AI in every respect, is currently £2800.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  6. #36
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

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    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Opti-cal View Post
    Mike, I get what you are saying re valve amps but I think your issue with them has been compounded by the Audio Note's shortcomings, not the amps.

    With the right speakers valve amps can give a powerful, dynamic sound with plenty of bass although admittedly it can be tricky to get right though. The speakers you have are considered superb for acoustic reproduction and indeed Jazz (as you have eluded to). They do place texture and timbre above nearly all else sonic-wise so other important (although less to some people) characteristics of a speakers 'signature' are missing, even compared to a lot of far less expensive examples.

    For a lot of people this is okay as they may only listen to the kind of music that the speakers excel with but it does limit your musical genres somewhat.

    As with a lot of things hifi its horses for courses due to the limitations of speaker design. I would say the AN's are more 'compromised' than most in the pursuit of convincingly reproducing one or two particular types of music extremely well (maybe better than nearly all others).

    As you say if you're willing to swap the speakers out when you feel like it then that's fine but the amp is not the problem here. Get some more well rounded and less 'compromised' speakers and a lot of things missing from the AN's should return, plus, if you choose carefully you might just get a large dose of what the AN's offer too!
    Thanks Chris, might be worth trying another speaker in good time then.
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  7. #37
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

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    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty38 View Post
    I get different folk like different things and that's great but what I struggle with is this concept of something is great with this tune but crap with that one. Subtle differences I can handle but such polar opposites and I'm struggling.

    Mike, I know you've had room/positioning issues before now and also issues with your deck and the arm being set up correctly so what's the score right now and any updated pictures of the setup?
    Hi Scotty, been using my CDP mostly, Mission pcm 7000, but of an antique, lol! Should get it serviced or get a something newer! The speakers are close ish to the corners of the room, which is great cos they're out of the way! I like this design! I shoul probably do some roon treatment too, my kitchen adjoins my listinening (living) room, so a lot of flat kitchen units to bounce off.
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  8. #38
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

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    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Floyddroid View Post
    I wouls agree with Adam in that something isn't right. It is a common view that there is a synergy between the AA and AN products. Have you ever had the amp serviced or replaced any of the valves? Have you tried a different source? I suspect a mechanical problem as unlike Macca i have heard the ANJ's working with AA amps and they sounded divine.
    Serviced recently, may'be it needs a second opinion?
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  9. #39
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

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    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I don't know, if they measure anything like the Lexus Signature I linked to earlier I wouldn't have them if they were being given away free at petrol stations. But there are a lot of terrible speakers out there so they may well be better than most.

    Jazz is a big genre and some of it will demand high standard of reproduction so it depends what sort of jazz we are talking about. Three or four instruments, playing acoustically, well recorded, that's not difficult to get sounding 'good' on pretty much anything, hence the popularity of it for show demos. A complex mix is a different matter.
    I see where you're coming from, but I had a big expensive amp once, a minty JVC AX1010, I found it rather sterile, though I'm sure some folk will be able to get better out of it.
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

  10. #40
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Brighton, UK.

    Posts: 3,061
    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    Gotta agree with the OP on this one. Back around 2003 I was using an Audion 300B SE amp with Audio Note AZ-2's the source being an Arcam CD player and an Alphason Sonata. I realised quite quickly that jazz, female vocal and acoustic music sounded bloody wonderful. In fact it was probably the best I'd heard up to that point. The big problem I had was that I listened mainly, as now, to heavy electronic music and Prog Rock. So once again I dumped the lot and re-invented the bloody wheel for the nth time. Does it ever end...?
    LOL, I'm only to listening to more Jazz music now that I'm getting on a bit.
    Current system 1210 GR. CDP - Meridian G08. Amp -Sugden A21I - Sig. Wharfedale Lintons.

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