Were 'vintage 'components ever any good?

[purite audio]

Having visited a cutomer who effectively had two systems a 'vintage' system comprising Krell, Audio Research SP10 , Goldmund reference turntable, and a more modern Chord/Nagra , the sound of the vintage one was a bit too soft and fuzzy , was the Audio Research SP10 ever the pinnacle of pre-amps>or was it just marketing bull even back then? have the older products deteriorated over time or are newer products simply much better? Keith.

[Togil]

Wasn't the SP 11 the pinnacle ?

[Colinx]

define better?, if you mean sharper, brighter, then modern is possibly better. The older kit could probably stand a service as well. Did you compare them on the same speakers?

[DSJR]

I'll be flamed for this, but I never found the SP8/10/11 to be that good - they dramatically altered the signal fed them so can't be judged true HiFi can they?

Mind you, I used and very much liked an SP14 from new for a couple of years but these hybrid units aren't liked by the ARC purists - too neutral and no line valves either? A Croft Super Micro 4 "PP" sounded better than all of them IMO.........

The LS25 was a good oldie and worked well with Krell, but still gave signals passing through it a warm "tone." Kept the clarity though..

[Togil]

I'll be flamed for this, but I never found the SP8/10/11 to be that good - they dramatically altered the signal fed them so can't be judged true HiFi can they?

.

Gordon Holt of Stereophile about the SP11 at the time :

"This preamp sounds like nothing! The high-level section is the closest thing to a straight wire with gain that I have ever encountered"

[Marco]

Hi Keith,

Were vintage components ever any good?

One can only speak from experience, and whilst some vintage gear I've heard has been vastly overrated, the majority of respected stuff I've heard has been very good indeed and in many cases often superior, musically - not in a 'hi-fi' sense (this is crucial, IMO) to modern gear.

Examples?

There are many... Try listening to a well set-up, properly mounted, Technics SP-10 (or modified SL-1210) and compare it to virtually any modern T/T at anything like an affordable price and you will discover how comprehensively better both Technics decks are at reproducing music. The same can be said in many cases of Lencos, Garrards, EMTs. Even the majority of vintage belt-drive decks, if in good working order, are sonically superior to their modern counterparts.

Compare the best CDPs from the late 80s to mid 90s, particularly those using Philips TDA1541 DAC chips, to 95% of today's offerings, and once hearing the anaemic, artificially processed, sound produced in comparison you will quickly realise that out with of lossless streaming of music files via computers (done well) how digital technology in terms of pure sound quality has mainly gone backwards in the last 20-odd years.

But the best example of all is of course valves. This, what, 80+ year old technology when properly implemented into today's designs in my experience is comprehensively superior to anything I've heard so far that solid-state has to offer, again crucially in a musical sense, not in a 'hi-fi' one. Yes, if you want (truly) massive volume and sphincter-tight control of bass frequencies solid-state amps are they way to go, but in my experience it's always at the expense of tonal colour, dynamic range and harmonic detail which are fundamental in allowing music to be expressed with drama, emotive impact, and the most important thing of all: REALISM.

Given my recent experiences in this area, I will be writing a piece in a separate thread shortly on this very subject.

Marco.

[jandl100]

I owned a SP11 mk2 for a while. It was nothing special, tbh.

My vintage Quad 57s are rather different though - they can easily show most modern speakers the door.

My Krell KSA50 mk1 also stands up excellently to the modern competition.

So yes, some vintage stuff still compares well with today's best kit, imo.

[purite audio]

I owned a Technics SP10 mark II it was ok, good for the price I suppose but not state of the art! Re old digital I haven't heard enough of it, valves I agree with you, with efficient speakers valves are the way to go imho.

[Togil]

My vintage Quad 57s are rather different though - they can easily show most modern speakers the door.

Yes I've heard people say how depressingly little progress has been made in speaker technology when they hear a 57.

[pure sound]

going back even further than the Quads, for high quality midrange I'd say very little progress has been made since the Vitavox S2.