PC+Caiman DAC = Clicking noise at right channel output

[StanleyB]

I am still unclear why you need to change the sound card settings to 24bit/96KHz when playing back an audio file. Is your PC otherwise unable to detect the correct bit rate and sampling frequency of the audio file? I can't find any information anywhere that recommends that the sound card settings should be changed to match the file bit and frequency format.

[MaCs]

I don't have to change it. This setting is used for the Windows kernel mixer. If your application uses the Windows kernel mixer, the stream is resampled to this this value. But if you use a WASAPI plugin (direct streaming), the audio stream is sent directly to the sound card and no resampling occurs. So 16/44.1 files are sent as 16/44.1 and 24/96 files are sent as 24/96.

Martin.

[sum1]

Stan,

I believe his problem and mine is that playing back 24/96 file such as the one you can get here http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html. Bear in mind you need something else such as 24 bit computer soundcard with spdif out to properly get 24/96 signal out to the caiman from a computer.

My problem affects normal CD Redbook files as well. Although the volume and frequency of the clicking varies with different computer and player output configuration. Currently it is very hard and frustrating to get a perfect nonclick sound out of a computer with the caiman.

Thanks for joining the discussion by the way and i hope you can help us out.

[MaCs]

My problem affects normal CD Redbook files as well. Although the volume and frequency of the clicking varies with different computer and player output configuration.

Regarding redbook cd files, what program and configuration do you use? I have found that in some programs, you can either set the output resolution or leave it as it is.

In JRivers Media Center, for instance, you can either set "source bit depth" or set it to 16 or 24 bit. In my case, if I set "source bit depth", 16 bit files will play well and 24 bit files will have the "clicks". If I set 16 bit depth, there will be no click at all but of course 24 bit files are downsampled to 16 bit.

Martin.

[sum1]

Regarding redbook cd files, what program and configuration do you use? I have found that in some programs, you can either set the output resolution or leave it as it is.

In JRivers Media Center, for instance, you can either set "source bit depth" or set it to 16 or 24 bit. In my case, if I set "source bit depth", 16 bit files will play well and 24 bit files will have the "clicks". If I set 16 bit depth, there will be no click at all but of course 24 bit files are downsampled to 16 bit.

Martin.

I mainly use Foobar. Output settings is mainly set at 24 bit if i use my realtek toslink out(since i have quite a few 24/96 file and prefer not to constantly switch between 16/24bit) but i did try changing it to 16 bit to see for differences. in 16 bit mode playing 44khz file i can still hear the clicks although the click does get reduced when compared to 24 bit output.

If i switch to a desktop pc which got much lower DPC latency than my laptop, using usb connection in 16 bit foobar output i still get clicks if i use Directsound output but i think it disappeared if i use ASIO4all output (although i still have to confirm this by spending more time with it).

Its very easy to blame that the realtek is the problem since afterall its is a free onboard solution but i also got a m2tech hiface and i also cant get the m2tech hiface to work with the caiman withough clicks on 3 pcs using KS/WASAPI/ASIO in 16/24 bit output mode.

[MaCs]

So it seems that your Caiman is even buggier than mine.

[sum1]

Martin,

Did you say that you also have problem playing redbook file in 24 bit output mode e.g 24/44.1khz? If so can you try to use a resampler and set it to 48khz. I dont know why but currently resampling to 48khz fixes my clicking problem.

Oh and i tried my desktop computer ancient ac97 based coax spdif out to the caiman and this works fine as well. Cant try 24 bit file though on ac97 due to incompatibility.

[dave2010]

Martin

I did manage to get some clicky sounds, but it wasn't slightly bad - just terrible.

I tried using a MP3+ Soundblaster external card to output an optical signal to the Caiman. This works fine on "normal" music, but if a high res sound file (96 kHz) is played, it either doesn't work at all, or produces a very choppy sound. I tried a 192 kHz file, but that wouldn't work at all. I tried several different players, and some wouldn't do anything, but foobar managed to output something at 96 kHz. However that Soundblaster card is only a 16 bit card, and I'm not sure if it's even supposed to touch 96 kHz sampled files. I'll check this out again - though it's tricky as Creative have effectively withdrawn support for this device and finding documentation seems hard. [I should have some printed version somewhere, but where ...?]

If you're using Windows - looks like you are - then you could get different performance and results depending on the player. It's quite possible that along the chain between the file and the Caiman that something would do additional processing, in which case you can't be sure that the input to the DAC is actually what you think it is. If you're using USB to drive which I note that you were even to generate an SPDIF output form your m2tech hiface device, then apart from the issue of Windows maybe not doing Audio 2 in a consistent way (dependent on OS and other factors), it looks as though the USB Audio spec may on occasion try to be clever which would mean you wouldn't know exactly what it's actually doing. This is slightly speculative on my part, having looked at some of the documentation recently. If the m2tech unit comes with its own drivers, then presumably that will have been sorted.

I should also eventually be able to check using an iMac, which should be up to the latest specs - though that may be a little while.

One possible issue could be the optical cable length, though I doubt it. I'm using a 10 metre cable at present, and it's OK with the 16/48 I'm currently listening to. I've not listened enough to know whether there is any serious degradation, but there's nothing too obvious with what I'm listening to right now.

Sorry if I'm way off here, but I'm just trying to see what happens with different kit.

[MaCs]

Martin,

Did you say that you also have problem playing redbook file in 24 bit output mode e.g 24/44.1khz? If so can you try to use a resampler and set it to 48khz. I dont know why but currently resampling to 48khz fixes my clicking problem.

Oh and i tried my desktop computer ancient ac97 based coax spdif out to the caiman and this works fine as well. Cant try 24 bit file though on ac97 due to incompatibility.

Ok, I will try that tonight and keep you informed.

[MaCs]

Martin
One possible issue could be the optical cable length, though I doubt it. I'm using a 10 metre cable at present, and it's OK with the 16/48 I'm currently listening to. I've not listened enough to know whether there is any serious degradation, but there's nothing too obvious with what I'm listening to right now.

Sorry if I'm way off here, but I'm just trying to see what happens with different kit.

No, I tested different cables and it did not change anything. But thanks for your advice.

Martin.