I do"Nobody, and I mean nobody, wants a system that replicates live music."
Location: KY - Scotland
Posts: 5,481
I'm Mike.
I do"Nobody, and I mean nobody, wants a system that replicates live music."
Location: Greece
Posts: 249
I'm Panos.
Apologies for jumping in, but everyone here (apart from me) seems to know what a PA system is. What does PA stand for? Someone clarify that, please?
System1: Lenco L75 with custom plinth, SLAT, sph bearing, SG4 external power supply + Alfred Bokrand AB-309 tonearm + Denon DL103R (aluminum body) + Well Tempered 12" tonearm clone + Denon DL103R (wooden body), ASR Mini Basis Exclusive HV, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Lab12 Suono power amp, Falcon LS3/5a Gold Badge, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII
System 2: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with Maxon ReMax motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6003, Croft Micro25R + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv.
System 3: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0
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“Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".
“You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”
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Location: Greece
Posts: 249
I'm Panos.
System1: Lenco L75 with custom plinth, SLAT, sph bearing, SG4 external power supply + Alfred Bokrand AB-309 tonearm + Denon DL103R (aluminum body) + Well Tempered 12" tonearm clone + Denon DL103R (wooden body), ASR Mini Basis Exclusive HV, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Lab12 Suono power amp, Falcon LS3/5a Gold Badge, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII
System 2: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with Maxon ReMax motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6003, Croft Micro25R + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv.
System 3: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0
Basically what is generally known as a Tannoy
Though the term also extends to the amplification system used by bands for those instruments that don't (unlike, typically, guitar, bass and keyboards) have their own dedicated amplification and speaker setup on stage - typically when a band perform, the vocals at least and often also the drum kit will be mic'd to be amplified via the 'PA' system. The PA also enables vocals and other signals to be routed to monitors in front of the performers so they can hear what other people are doing.
The most amusing PA-come-hifi system at Munich the year I went was playing Pink Floyd 'The Wall' and consisted of a PA horn stack broadcasting - there is no other word really - to about 100 people. While superficially impressive you wouldn't want that in your living room even if you lived in a barn.
Location: North Island New Zealand
Posts: 1,757
I'm Chris.
A piano is a very good example of a musical instrument when played live and then played back via a recording via hifi audio equipment
should be quite or near perfect - if you strive for perfection to what is heard. A piano is a percussive instrument, it contains rich harmonic
structures making real challenges for audio equipment to reproduce it correctly.
Similarly jazz trio's and quartets should be capable to replicate their natural sound via your audio system
Pink Floyd happen to be rather good at recording electric and acoustic instruments, and at the same time presenting their music
in an acoustic space that suits the meaning of the music. There are many fine moments where they get the sound absolutely correct.
However Pink Floyd via a PA system, has many compromises namely PA systems are not designed for hifi reproduction
A good example of where musicians choose wisely the recording in preference- over the PA sound was Phil Manzanera's 801 live.
The microphones first going to the recording device then following that to the PA system, in so doing preserving what was heard.
The majority of good recordings feed signal to the PA system for the larger audiences benefit - after the recording device.
Location: Greece
Posts: 249
I'm Panos.
Thanks very much for your encouragement, James. I will report my impressions, as soon as the new Khozmo attenuators have been installed and some critical listening has taken place.
By the way, I was under the impression (conviction?) that my Croft 25RSLS was as transparent and realistic as could be. Until I bypassed the Tocos pots and used the Hattor dual mono passive as a volume control. Definitely not the optimal solution in terms of hardware economy, but the sonic improvement was substantial and definitely not marginal. It was supposed to be an experiment to showcase the effect that pots play in the sound quality. Well, I can say it was equal (or even more) to the improvement I got, when I had the 'standard' Micro 25 preamp upgraded to 'R' spec by Glenn. Croft owners may understand what I mean. I would not call that improvement marginal.
Now, if I install Khozmo series attenuators inside the Croft preamp box (and get rid of all binding posts and interconnects I now have in the Hattor+Croft combination), I expect (and hope) that the result will be even better. And I am not even referring to the greater ease-of-use thanks to the remote control. I am focusing entirely on sound quality here.
The caveat is that when a system improves, it makes the distance between good and mediocre/bad recordings even bigger. Recordings that used to be OK in the past, may be unsatisfactory from now on. Hmmm...
System1: Lenco L75 with custom plinth, SLAT, sph bearing, SG4 external power supply + Alfred Bokrand AB-309 tonearm + Denon DL103R (aluminum body) + Well Tempered 12" tonearm clone + Denon DL103R (wooden body), ASR Mini Basis Exclusive HV, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Lab12 Suono power amp, Falcon LS3/5a Gold Badge, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII
System 2: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with Maxon ReMax motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6003, Croft Micro25R + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv.
System 3: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0