The price is right....or is it?

[SLS]

Nothing against Mark as I use one of his top notch tone arms and he is a gent, but 5 nylon washers for £7 or 100 for £2.60 off eBay. Take your choice. I've got 98 left over.

http://www.originlive.com/tonearm-op...n-washers.html
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M3-M4-M5-M...item35d2f79fe0

And another one - my little lad has sorbothane insoles for his trainers, under £10 a pair, might get some, cut them up and stick them under my Turntable.

[Jimbo]

I have only recently bought equipment after quite a long period out of the box and cable swapping milarky.
To re educate myself I set about buying magazines, researching the internet and joined forums. I nearly chocked when I saw the prices being asked for items and could not believe the prices being asked for speakers, turntables and cables, after all in the period I had stopped buying, white goods had hardly moved in price!

So I started thinking why had the hifi industry become what seemed to me a rich mans toy. Had it now become a luxury item like some watches, sunglasses and cars or were there so few people buying that in order to make a profit on the few units they were selling that had to crank the price up to eye watering levels!!

I think the answer may lie somewhere in between.. However unfortunately for many of us audiophiles many mAny of these products are priced way beyond our capabilities so we have to scratch around on the second hand market or look to the Beresfords and Crofts of this world to get out fix at relatively affordable prices.

What I have learnt on my journey back to audio nirvana is that it makes you much more creative and imaginative when putting together a system and quite often the price of a fantastic sounding piece of kit does not require you to remortgage the house.

[Macca]

Some bemoan the fact that there is no middle ground anymore, you can either buy budget gear or eye-wateringly expensive gear and nothing in between. personally I think this is a good thing as it provides some focus. If you go to Richer sounds you can buy an amp and some small 2 way speakers and have change from £400. Or you could go to Hi-Fi Serious and drop £4K on an amp and small 2 way speakers (lets leave the source out of it for the moment) but the £400 system is going to give you 90%, maybe even 95% of what the £4K system does. So why drop the £4K unless you have money to burn?

I think a lot of manufacturers cottoned on to this a long time ago, consequently instead of chasing volume sales they produce a new product which they could sell retail at £2K and make money on, ensure that they get a few good reviews in the mags and internet and stick a £10K price tag on it. That way they only need to sell a few a year to make a good income and it's a big planet with a lot of wealthy people so that is pretty much guaranteed. Add to that the 'it's cheap so it can't be any good' brigade who still thrive despite the increasingly obvious idiocy of their position and it all makes sense.

[Ali Tait]

It works both ways though, I think a lot of manufacturers deliberately de-tune their cheaper gear in an effort to get people to spend more.

[jandl100]

Some bemoan the fact that there is no middle ground anymore, you can either buy budget gear or eye-wateringly expensive gear and nothing in between.

I'm baffled why people keep saying this - you can buy any type of gear at pretty much any price.

... the £400 system is going to give you 90%, maybe even 95% of what the £4K system does.

No, it won't. If you've spent your money sensibly the £4k system will grind the £400 one into the dust. And a well thought out £40k system will do the same to the £4k system.

[Jimbo]

Some bemoan the fact that there is no middle ground anymore, you can either buy budget gear or eye-wateringly expensive gear and nothing in between. personally I think this is a good thing as it provides some focus. If you go to Richer sounds you can buy an amp and some small 2 way speakers and have change from £400. Or you could go to Hi-Fi Serious and drop £4K on an amp and small 2 way speakers (lets leave the source out of it for the moment) but the £400 system is going to give you 90%, maybe even 95% of what the £4K system does. So why drop the £4K unless you have money to burn?

I think a lot of manufacturers cottoned on to this a long time ago, consequently instead of chasing volume sales they produce a new product which they could sell retail at £2K and make money on, ensure that they get a few good reviews in the mags and internet and stick a £10K price tag on it. That way they only need to sell a few a year to make a good income and it's a big planet with a lot of wealthy people so that is pretty much guaranteed. Add to that the 'it's cheap so it can't be any good' brigade who still thrive despite the increasingly obvious idiocy of their position and it all makes sense.

I think you have a point here Martin. I have spoken to some dealers and they have said they only need to sell a couple of x, y or z items in order to make enough profit for the year. Maybe it's easier to sell a couple of very expensive items rather than have to sell lots of boxes in order to make a buck?

[Macca]

I'm baffled why people keep saying this - you can buy any type of gear at pretty much any price.



No, it won't. If you've spent your money sensibly the £4k system will grind the £400 one into the dust. And a well thought out £40k system will do the same to the £4k system.

You'll note I was careful to specify that the loudspeakers in both cases were small 2 ways...and given that I think my point still stands. Sure if you have 40K and no other constraints like space or WAF or pain in the arse neighbours you can get some mega-speakers in which case you will hear the difference.

[jandl100]

You'll note I was careful to specify that the loudspeakers in both cases were small 2 ways...and given that I think my point still stands. Sure if you have 40K and no other constraints like space or WAF or pain in the arse neighbours you can get some mega-speakers in which case you will hear the difference.

Ah, well, I didn't notice the "small 2 way" clause.

I guess I do agree with you after all - personally, I certainly have lavished the Big Dosh on my speakers and I am happy to use source and amps costing vastly less, especially at used prices.

[Marco]

No, it won't. If you've spent your money sensibly the £4k system will grind the £400 one into the dust. And a well thought out £40k system will do the same to the £4k system.

I have to agree with that (although I know where Martin is coming from).

The key, however, is in the highlighted text, as the results obtained will largely be governed by how judiciously the owners of said systems have chosen and assembled their respective systems, in order to achieve maximum SPPV, including how much attention has been paid to set-up (system 'infrastructure', such as how optimally it receives power from the mains supply, its use of equipment supports, cables, etc).

Therefore, I'd put it this way instead:

A judiciously chosen, assembled and optimally set-up £400 system could indeed outperform a badly chosen, assembled and sub-optimally set-up £4k system, as indeed could a judiciously chosen, assembled and optimally set-up £4k system do the same to its badly chosen, etc, £40k counterpart....

The 'optimal' £400 system could also do the same, if the £40k system in question was really bad (as can often be the case when the owner buys equipment solely on brand reputation or snob value, and pays little attention to anything else), which is why many ludicrously expensive and ridiculously over-complicated 'ultra high-end' systems at shows are often bereft of musical merit.

However, a judiciously chosen, assembled and optimally set-up £40k system should, as Jerry says, 'grind into the dust' any £400 or £4k system, judiciously chosen, etc, or otherwise.

Therefore, essentially is all about the skill of the system owner to obtain maximum SPPV from his or her choice of components and ancillaries, by successfully attending to every aspect of system performance, not the total cost of the system itself. Price alone will NEVER guarantee top sonic performance!

Marco.

[nat8808]

My guess Nat would be a sirloin of steak. Or possibly chicken.

With a covering of PVA glue to make it last a little longer..