"Big - Old - Legacy - Separates"

[Marco]

jc,

Marco, I meant the transports in CDp's are fragile, which they are.

Sorry, but it wasn't exactly clear what you were referring to as "fragile".

I had a string of replacements in my Studer-Revox CDp, and I expect your sony will misbehave sometime soon.

Don't count on it! Care to have a bet? And if it does, I've got a spare mech which Mark from Audiocom will fit. I think I'll probably have grey hair and a big bushy beard before that happens, though!

Anyway if you've got the files backed up onto networked storage like a time machine or ATV, then you don't need the CDp ever again.

I'm very interested in hi-end computer audio, but it will NOT replace my Sony CDP - it will be used together with it.

I was very glad to get rid of a large unattractive nerdy techy box from my sitting room.

Fortunately I have a dedicated music/hi-fi room that's separate from my sitting room so concerns of that nature are irrelevant.

CD players are the spawn of the devil, and if we had all been able to afford computers to play our digifiles in the '80's, when they replaced vinyl disks, the damn things would never have been born.

I agree with you when it comes to 95% of the CD players made today, but not the best ones from, say, the late 80s to the mid 90s. That's when CD players sounded 'right'! They were still not as good as top-notch vinyl set-up, though.

We now have the technology to play the digital files properly, as they were originally intended, instead of the ridiculous contraption which is a CD player.

Perhaps that's the case in the best computer audio set-ups, but a high quality Red Book CD player still has much to offer. I know because I own one!

I don't know whether I have explained my position on CD players adequately, please ask if you want me to elucidate on anything.

Nope. You're coming across loud and clear. It's just that I disagree with 95% of what you're saying!!

Marco.

[Ashley James]

OK so you've got four TDA1541 Crown S1 DACs which we haven't bothered with since moving to Burr Brown in 1994 because they were 20 and not 16 bit multi bit DACs. We used two in dual co-linear array with the superior Burr Brown Digital filter. They've been obsolete for years too, having been replaced by bitstream parts.

The CDP555ES I had used a single Philips TDA1541 and a Sony Digital filter which is why it was so much better than the Philips stuff, out of band hash was significantly reduced. This what was causing so many problems with certain other Amp companies.

We use two 24 bit WM8741's in our CD player too and AD797's so much better than the old Sony as they should be 14 years later.

[Marco]

I must admit I didn't bother - can I have it again to save me looking for it please.

No problem. From me earlier:

I suggest that you read the thread on Audiocom International in the trade room (who modified both my Sony X-777ES AND DAS-R1 DAC; specifically the bit where Mark outlines why the Sony is so good in the first place, what modifications he's already carried out to my player, and what further modifications/upgrades are planned to take place shortly. Remember, I'm not just using the X-777ES player on its own. The Sony DAS-R1 is a seriously hi-end separate DAC.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...p?t=301&page=2

Check out post #14 in particular, and #32 on page 4. You might also want to take a look at the internal of the X-777ES shown in Mark's link in post #14.

It bears no resemblance whatsoever to what's used in the Cambridge. The fact is both DACs inhabit totally different leagues in terms of performance. In the interests of factual accuracy it might also be a good idea if I showed your reply here to Mark and let him comment

Now no more from you please until you've read what Mark has written!

You can buy a Shuffle for £32 so why don't you all try plugging one into your hi fi. I think it'll be a bit of a shock.

Not me. If I'm going to waste £32 I'd rather do it on a decent bottle of claret!

Marco.

[Marco]

OK so you've got four TDA1541 Crown S1 DACs which we haven't bothered with since moving to Burr Brown in 1994 because they were 20 and not 16 bit multi bit DACs. We used two in dual co-linear array with the superior Burr Brown Digital filter. They've been obsolete for years too, having been replaced by bitstream parts.

The CDP555ES I had used a single Philips TDA1541 and a Sony Digital filter which is why it was so much better than the Philips stuff, out of band hash was significantly reduced. This what was causing so many problems with certain other Amp companies.

We use two 24 bit WM8741's in our CD player too and AD797's so much better than the old Sony as they should be 14 years later.

Ashley,

Read what Mark wrote about the TDA1541s properly. They're one of the best DAC chips ever made! They're "obsolete" because they're no longer produced by Philips, that's all, not because they're in any way inferior to what's made now - far from it.

And I firmly believe Multi-bit sounds much better than Bitstream, just as Betamax was better than VHS - both classic examples of marketing getting in the way of performance!!

The fact is newest and latest in hi-fi is not always best in terms of what matters most - sound quality. But as you're a manufacturer selling new products I don't expect you to agree

And what in your opinion is better that's in a Cambridge audio CDP? Please don't tell me you think there's a better DAC in there than four TDA1541s or I'll wet myself laughing!!

Marco.

[Ashley James]

Marco - he's wrong as I made clear in earlier Postings. My NEC Japan only CD player and my similar Yamaha both used Burr Brown DACs because they were quite a lot better 20 bit parts and they had better digital filters too. Those old 1541's weren't even full 16 Bit, they were good then, but things moved on long ago. I'm afraid the DAC in a Shuffle is better too.

Philips replaced the 1541 with the Bitstream part that's in the 203 Meridian and it used to stop FM radios working within 100 ft!

[Marco]

Sorry, Ashley, I don't think Mark is wrong - far from it. It will be interesting to hear his thoughts on the matter when he catches up with this thread. This discussion is ridiculous, and rather fruitless.

Answer me this:

Why would a respected seriously hi-end company like Zanden use the TDA1541 in their £40k transport & DAC combination if it wasn't the best sounding chip they could find today?

The fact is my Sony CDP & DAC would completely outperform any ipod, most modern CDPs, and most computer audio set-ups, save perhaps the very best of both.

I suggest you bring your ADM9s up, and an ipod, and I'll book the table at my local restaurant

Until then we will go round and round in circles!

Marco.

[Marco]

Hi Mike,

Have you read the "Does size matter?" thread. I think you'd find it very interesting! In fact, if you don't mind, I'll move your above post into that thread later.

I'm in full agreement with you - big speakers rule!

Marco.

[Ashley James]

Why would a respected seriously hi-end company like Zanden use the TDA1541 in their £40k transport & DAC combination if it wasn't the best sounding chip they could find today?

Marco.

Because, like so much of the hi end, they haven't got a clue! I hope they've managed to find a suitable Digital filter or they will vary enormously depending on what they are connected to.

The bloody things haven't been made for fifteen years!

And they can't play the 24 bit recordings that may soon be available, Gimmell are already selling them.

[Marco]

Because, like so much of the hi end, they haven't got a clue!

Hahaha... Very good, Ashley!

As the popular colloquial expression goes: "Dream on".

Marco.

[Ashley James]

I don't have to, I've had years of experience of the Hi End and regard it as mostly (there are exceptions) the products of Egotistical and obsessive technicians without broad enough experience or training to do a proper job. Most aren't even qualified. I could describe some of the incompetent crap we've had in the Lab if I had days to spare!

I'm lucky in working with one of the most highly qualified, experienced and Intelligent engineers in this Industry and to be associated with the company designing the Bentley radio for Naim. We could have done it ourselves!

As I pointed out to Richard, everything works better if you have a team around you who get on really well together and care passionately about what they are doing.