Shure M3D - yet another truly great classic cartridge

[Marco]

"Originally Posted by NRG
Response to 15Khz and min 3g tracking force:"

http://www.cartridgedb.com/docs/shure_m3d.pdf


Had a look at the data sheet above and it makes me think that the shure M3D is not
really a high fidelity cart isn't the spec for hifi 20 -20Khz.

Hi Mark,

Spec or no spec, I know what my ears are telling me and the M3D definitely is a high fidelity cartridge - and a superb one at that!

Right, must go!

Laters,
Marco.

[SPS]

"Originally Posted by NRG
Response to 15Khz and min 3g tracking force:"

http://www.cartridgedb.com/docs/shure_m3d.pdf


Had a look at the data sheet above and it makes me think that the shure M3D is not
really a high fidelity cart isn't the spec for hifi 20 -20Khz.

thats a very interesting point of view...

my ears dont work well above 12k..
and there not much in the way of music above 12k really...

so if that's a measure of quality hi fi .. well what can i say..
my system must be nothing like real hifi.....

thinking about it the above must be right..

my m3d sounds nothing like hi fi .


steve

[Ali Tait]

Quite right Steve,your system doesn't sound anything like hi-fi! I know which I'd choose against a system that did though..

[markf]

I didn't say anything about quality,I just mentioned that 20 -15Khz might not be considered hifi.

[Ali Tait]

Not trying to diss you Mark,just making the comment-if you're around 40 or so,you'd be lucky to hear as high as 15khZ.

[NRG]

thats a very interesting point of view...

my ears dont work well above 12k..

Steve, that may well be true....but

and there not much in the way of music above 12k really...

steve

That's just a load of bollocks

[DSJR]

Steve, that may well be true....but



That's just a load of bollocks

Bearing in mind that many of us listen at least a metre away from our speakers and that most of our rooms have absorbent furniture, I'd venture to suggest that "in room" there is little coming to our ears much above 12KHz anyway. FM radio is brick-walled at 15KHz and a fair number of LP's have to be rolled away above 15KHz to prent the cutter head taking off. Much used analogue master players have well worn heads and these are only replaced when the 15KHz levels on the master tapes (one of four test-tone frequencies) cannot be brought flat with the adjusters.

[Barry]

Delighted to hear of your success with the M3D. I am of course intrigued that you find, overall, the M3D to be comparable to your Denon 103SA.

The M3D was my first cartridge, bought fourty years ago! Intially used in the arm of a Garrard SP25 (III ?) for about three months, then transferred to an SME. From memory I think it was tracked at 4g. In those early days I chose a 'middling' value and assumed that for an SME, 4g would be sufficient. No trouble was found in mounting it in the SME headshell. I used the M3D for about a year, then moved on to the M55E, which at that time, I thought to be considerably better.

Later I moved up the Shure range: through M75ED, V15II(imp) and V15III, but none of these lasted long and I changed my alliegence to ADC and the Ortofon moving coils.

I notice that you also have an M75E, so the M55E lies roughly midway in the heirachy. I would thus be very interested in your views on how the M3D compares with the M75E. If favorable, I may get my 55E out of retirement and give it a go.

Regarding information on the M3D, I have found an advertising booklet for Shure cartridges (wherein it is referred to as the M3D-M). The only points where it differs from the data sheet provide by Neil (NRG) are as follows:
Output voltage 5mV/channel at 1000Hz 5cm/sec
Net weight 8.5 grammes.
(curious about the change in weight)

The M3D apparently has a strong following in Japan, so you are not alone.
It really does seem that what goes around comes around! I shall be following this thread with great interest.

Regards

Barry

[Marco]

Well...

Like I said, the 103SA definitely has better high frequency fine detail retrieval (it goes up to 25,000Hz), but the effect on the 'meat' of the music is fairly benign.

I can hear it, but it's not significant in terms of affecting the communication of the emotive element or 'soul' in musical performances, which for me is what matters. This is what I listen to music for on a hi-fi system (the emotional connection) - not forensically dissecting the minutiae of subtle details.

This is every bit as much a part of 'hi-fi' (if the goal is to replicate as close as possible the qualities of live music) as reproducing every minute detail on recordings. If my system or choice of cartridge didn't get the former aspect of the presentation right then the latter would be meaningless, and the overall result devoid of any real worth.

It boils down to the old argument again of how you listen to music, i.e. with your 'heart' or your 'head'. I will always firmly belong in the former camp, and cartridges such as the DL-103, Ortofon SPU and Shure M3D serve my needs perfectly, as to my ears they sound fundamentally more 'musical' than any über-transparent forensic detail retrieval device, which is mainly what today's high-end moving coil cartridges excel at.

What use is a barrage of information firing at your ears if the overall presentation lacks musical merit? If I'm not bopping away and tapping my feet then quite simply the musical message is missing and my system has failed in its purpose. It's a matter of differentiating between a sound that's 'impressive' and one which is 'natural' and believable. *THAT* is what true 'high fidelity' is all about!

Marco.

[Barry]

Apropos the ability to hear above 12KHz or not, well if you are like me over fifty then you will probably not be able to hear tones at this frequency or above. What you will hear is if the harmonics of a solo instrument are truncated by your system. The harmonics or overtones are what give instruments their various 'tambre' and allows you to distinguish the same note played on say a piano, stringed instrument, woodwind, or sung.

I cannot really hear individual tones above about 12KHz, but I can easily hear the effect of filtering out all the harmonics of a violin above 15KHz.

Barry