Fidelity to what? Or what are we tying to achieve with all our expensive gear?

[Wakefield Turntables]

great thread. I'm at peace with my system, it does what I need it to do. Occasionally I may trial a piece of kit which improves my system. The last thing being a Ortofon ST80 SUT. I have never bothered to try and reproduce a live performance. To me if the music makes me feel great then its doing its job. i have a very forensic system as I have stated previously, but thats my nature

[nat8808]

With regard to live sound, nothing put down on record is ever the sound of 'live' - at best it is the sound of two microphones being hit with the sound going through a particular place in a room. Ears are different to microphones and of course we 'hear' or at least experience sound with our whole bodies.

Then, the microphones are rarely anywhere where we could naturally place ourselves at the gig.

Most people do seem to mention comparing music to live and it's just a daft notion in my view, one kind of steeped in an idealism or even a slight poncy notion.

Of course, the sound 'event' we create at home is then something we respond to live.

[nat8808]

However, there are aspects of sound that often you only get from direct sound from an object unless you choose your system well. Even the difference between a reflected live sound and a direct live sound can be distinct - a sight dulling of top end and lessening of dynamics. Hearing a helicopter direct or instead reflected off the buildings around you (when it's out of sight) is a great example.

For me, those aspects of live sound are speed of attack, detail within the sound (call that tonal richness perhaps - a feeling of infinite depth to a sound), full range and a wide and deep soundstage - off the top of my head at least.

Because those things are quite hard to achieve satisfactorily, they stand out for me when I do come closer - so I then I end up striving toward that I guess.

This doesn't mean I want to listen loudly - quite the opposite. I want this at low levels really and that also helps with less blurring from the room acoustics.

One thing that is often ignored is background noise level - quite important for detail and soundstage I think, yet anyone with a road nearby is never likely to achieve a silent, unobtrusive background.

[nat8808]

I like to think of an album as a piece of art, lovingly created piece by piece by the artists.

You can't second guess what their intended sound is so you really need to just go for a sound that appears, to your best judgment, to be as clear a window into the sound as possible. I find that a system that can play all types of music/sound equally well as being more towards the ideal.

[MartinT]

Most people do seem to mention comparing music to live and it's just a daft notion in my view, one kind of steeped in an idealism or even a slight poncy notion.

What a strange statement to make, Nat. If you don't ever hear live acoustic instruments, how can you judge whether your system is doing a great job? Get that right, and EVERYTHING sounds better because your system is showing greater fidelity, and that's what it's all about.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I find it strange too, but what I'm most interested in is for Nat to explain this bit.

....or even a slight poncy notion

[nat8808]

What a strange statement to make, Nat. If you don't ever hear live acoustic instruments, how can you judge whether your system is doing a great job? Get that right, and EVERYTHING sounds better because your system is showing greater fidelity, and that's what it's all about.

That's what I said too... I talked about aspects of direct sounds from things for example, and trying to create those sounds through a system ..

You're mixing up the words refering to a live gig with 'live' meaning any sound in real life. This thread has been about live gigs and concerts. I mean 'live' in the same context as throughout the thread..


It has already been said in this thread many times - and people have agreed - that there is much more to a live gig than just the sound and often that sound can be terrible. Yet despite that, people love those terrible sounding gigs and have large emotional responses to those memories due to the crowd, due to visuals, due to the meaning of a song, due to what was going on in your life at the time, due to how you might have seen the performers as gods etc etc.

Once you understand that a system can only create sound, then it's a daft notion to strive to re-create the FEELING that you felt when you were there, one that was not induced by sound alone.

You've already agreed with others saying roughly the same thing, I think.

[nat8808]

I find it strange too, but what I'm most interested in is for Nat to explain this bit.

Given the above, you find people really getting wrapped up in that feeling/emotion of a live gig experience when talking about their system and what they are trying to achieve. When people are like that, they CAN come across as self absorbed, lost in their memories and emotions and un-able to realise that what they are responding to is all internal and personal - memory triggers from within - and not their system in isolation. Too much of that becomes pretentious / poncy.

Also, you find many inexperienced hifi newbes talking about 'that live sound' or whatever and you can tell they're just spouting words to try to sound like they know more than they really do, to get people to listen to their inexperienced opinions.

[MartinT]

That's what I said too... I talked about aspects of direct sounds from things for example, and trying to create those sounds through a system ..

You're mixing up the words refering to a live gig with 'live' meaning any sound in real life. This thread has been about live gigs and concerts. I mean 'live' in the same context as throughout the thread..

Ah, ok, I think I'm with you now, Nat. When I talk about reproducing the sound of a live 'gig' I'm really referring to acoustic instruments, so classical concerts and intimate jazz sessions mainly. I certainly don't seek to emulate anything about live rock concerts, the sound of which I do not wish to reproduce at home. They are a separate experience; rather like going to see an F1 race, you enjoy the atmosphere and the 'being there' but you need to go home and watch the race on TV to get a full appreciation of what happened!

That probably explains why I generally prefer studio albums to live albums: it's the performer's creative process I enjoy listening to.

As for ensuring my system is on the right track, I try to get human voice, piano, trumpet and violin sounding realistic. If it does those well, it should do most things well.

[John]

There certain aspects of a rock gig I like to try and reproduce like the sense of scale and the and having it loud enough to feel the music in my body, also part of my system is get a sense of the timbre and sound of the instruments being played of course their a lot more. I like my system to be able to give a real sense of the rhythm both in the sense of underlying the music and also that sense of drive, getting both is a difficult act to achieve. So in other words I am hearing the bass fully extending/underling the drums and getting the drive of the drums
I do not believe there is a ultimate right way as we all set up systems based on our own preferences, and each room is a unique environment.