Does size matter?

[sastusbulbas]

I think cohesive and snappy can be regardless of size.

Small speakers with sealed boxes, large paper coned bass drivers in sealed enclosures, amplifier choice etc, all help, as does room construction and speaker placement, plus speaker design and implementation. Many speakers are a variety of compromises for specific gains though.

My big Cerwin Vega's with 15" bass drivers have a very god turn of speed, and I also think my old Kef are reasonable, noticable with some of my "unual" electronic stuff by the likes of Ryoji Ikeda, or Bass Outlaws, I also think some three way designs can have an advantage here?

I also used to use some very snappy 18" Celestion Bass drivers when I was in my Yooth, deep and fast, and very annoying to some. Big scoops with 18" drivers such as the Cerwin Vega AB-36 can also produce some very past percussive low end at impressive levels.

[MartinT]

I think big speakers are more about scale than bass, although big usually does bass better than small. The only caveat to this is that you must be careful not to load up your room with low-mid resonances. This can be minimised by careful positioning and room treatment.

Additional to big speakers for me are a powerful amplifier (I subscribe to the Musical Fidelity philosophy of power requirements for proper dynamic range) and - perhaps surprisingly - a subwoofer. No big speaker, however large, can do proper infra-bass like a properly designed subwoofer.

All of this might sound like I have an overbearing system but in fact it is very fast and swings huge dynamics without sounding loud until the volume is really pushing high decibels. The proof is in voice remaining natural sounding even when bass guitar and kick drum are moving serious air.

Room treatment needs attention with big speakers!

[Mr. C]

For me personally realistic music reproduction should involve all of the frequencies you can muster!
So full range floor-standers are a must to truly recreate as much as you can humanly can given room/speaker interactions/ limitations.
I would agree with Martin T, careful room measurement and placement of treatments reap rewards, as much as mains, cables and isolation do.
That said, quality stand-mounts can generate some beautifully sweet and involving sounds that are wonderfully captivating.
The small cabinets do not have to move as much air, have far less 'issues to get right!'( X/over points, driver technology, cabinet construction both in materials and design etc.), and thus the compromises that go with decent bass extension and control.
There not a major intrinisic part of the initial conceptual process.
There is an innate musicality, and intimacy that a quality 2 way stand-mount brings to the fore, in a way that even the very best floor-standers do not reproduce (their strengths lie in other areas which can be equally compelling)
I am fortunate enough to regularly sample the best of both worlds, and can provide equally valid reasons for both.
Most of my personally listening is split between some custom Micro be's and their bigger brothers the Nova Utopia.
Recently we had a pair of the Sonus Faber Amati's traded in, a truly beautiful work of art that would grace many a quality home.
It brought its own take to the musical fore when we had them playing for a week or so. A rare breed indeed.
So for this I vote for both , never simple is me!

[Marco]

Hi Tony,

Good post, and I agree with much of what you say. Maybe the best answer then is a (very) large stand-mount speaker, which gives you the scale and 'physicality' of a decent sized floor-stander, and also the 'intimacy' and 'communication skills' of a quality small stand-mount?

Such beasts are very unfashionable, I know, but I believe that you can get the best of both worlds (which you describe) with a nice big BBC-style monitor, a la SP100, or say, Harbeth Monitor 40s. And no, they don't sound like ATCs! {Giggle}

Having owned SP100s for 6 years I can tell you they do bass like a large floor-stander and also the small speaker 'thing' very well, too!

Some great posts here, chaps. I will respond to some more of the replies later.

Meanwhile, here are some 'big boy' stand-mounts to drool over (Rob can you fix this so that the images and text appear automatically? Ta!)

http://www.harbeth.com/hifispeakers/...stic/index.php

http://www.spendoraudio.com/sp100.htm

Marco.

[MartinT]

Most of my personally listening is split between some custom Micro be's and their bigger brothers the Nova Utopia

This is fascinating. One possible upgrade for me is from my current Mezzos to the Altos (I think the Novas are beyond my reach). The thing I love about the Mezzos is the all-round coherence and getting the midrange voicing right. What does the Be tweeter bring to the party and are there other benefits over the older non-Be Utopia range?

[Ashley James]

I've heard the S100's a few times and love them, they represent the best of what made the Brit speakers good all those years ago and, given a good front end and decent listening room, I can't see why most people wouldn't like them.

There's no question that big speakers, properly designed, with hundreds of watts driving them are miles better than the best 6.5" two way or smaller. They can be staggeringly loud, clear and they can give a better front to back image than smaller ones too, although the left to right is about the same.

I don't like them with small amps, but then I don't like small amps and small amps are worse as speaker size increases.

And before Steve beats me up, I'd point out that making and calibrating big passive speakers properly, takes days and that the demand for them is miniscule. The potential for ADM9s might be more than 100 times as great because everybody (except you lot on this Forum) wants smaller hi fi.

Having said all that I agree that good small speakers punch way above their weight because of their size approximating to the human head and the radiation patterns being similar and that most big speakers are pretty crap because the bottom crossover is so difficult to get right. For example even in Active form the ATC's don't have the mid range performance of ADM9s.

Ash

[sastusbulbas]

I agree with most of the comments by Mr C and Martin,

Carefull room positioning and such are a must, though can take ages, I went through quite a fuffle yesterday when fitting Mana Soundbases under My Kef R107.
The wife had to put up with the sitting room being out of bounds all day, while I played around with spirit levels, measuring tapes and laser pointers, all so I could get my speakers back in their original exact position after removing them for the Mana instal.
Then it was tune after tune, vocal, heavy, complex simple, subteranean bass etc etc.

I am not into sub bass systems as such, did go to buy a discounted Rel Studio once, after a lot of deliberation, just to find out it had sold the morning I decided to buy it. The wife usually comments as that sort of thing as a sign it was not meant to be.

I am a big fan of speakers with a decent frequency range, and think they can be reasonably close to the ideal of small monitor strengths with big speaker performance, Kef speakers with the head arangement, Nightingale speakers with mid and treble on open bafles etc, I feel can get close. But again the simplicity and solid construction of some small speakers can be quite captivating as MR C says.

Isolation too, hence my use of Mana, I did look into getting Townsend cradles made up, but a lack of replies to Emails, and no questions answered regarding how they may work with a design such as the Kef, left me too unsure with no knowlege, so I spent the money on a trip to Germany.
Now I have five pairs of sounbases which will fit under My Kef R107, Rogers Studio 1 and Linn Kans. Still interested in those cradles though.

Steve

[sastusbulbas]

I'd point out that making and calibrating big passive speakers properly, takes days and that the demand for them is miniscule. The potential for ADM9s might be more than 100 times as great because everybody (except you lot on this Forum) wants smaller hi fi.

Ash

I do not dissagree with you there Ashley, I have had many small speakers too, and they have always been easier to intregrate into rooms and set up. Though my preference is either sealed or front ported small ones.

I did try smaller for a while in a couple of my systems, I have Linn Kans too. But I didn't get on well with small speakers in general, but will probably one day have a small speaker in the bedroom again?

Every so often I do catch myself looking at small PMC's, the smaller floorstanding PMC's, ATC SCM 20sl's (and old 10's), even the ADM9 did cross my mind, I have enjoyed AVI Pro 9's too. And some small Proac's.

Are you ever going to release an ADM9 with a couple of digital inputs, and a USB in the same speaker even? What about something with an 8" driver?

[Marco]

Ash,

I've heard the S100's a few times and love them, they represent the best of what made the Brit speakers good all those years ago and, given a good front end and decent listening room, I can't see why most people wouldn't like them.

The SP100s are the improved design and are even better. The new 'R' upgrade apparently raises their game even further.

I totally agree with you - I refer to the Spendors (and others like them) as 'proper' loudspeakers because they represent an era when (in general) performance mattered more than 'WAF' (Wife Acceptability Factor) or fitting in with whatever hi-fi sensibilities or fashions are in vogue.

Large BBC-style monitors were always considered the 'enthusiasts' choice, and many discerning listeners I know would use nothing else. Modern designs, such as the SP100, embrace all that was good in classic British loudspeakers from respected manufacturers, and also eradicate previous areas of weakness to form a rather potent cocktail of all-round ability.

There's no question that big speakers, properly designed, with hundreds of watts driving them are miles better than the best 6.5" two way or smaller. They can be staggeringly loud, clear and they can give a better front to back image than smaller ones too, although the left to right is about the same.

Experience also tells me this, so why settle for anything else if you can get away with it without upsetting domestic harmony, or care not a jot about the whims of current fashion?

The potential for ADM9s might be more than 100 times as great because everybody (except you lot on this Forum) wants smaller hi fi.

That's because we're the 'real deal'. The rest are just playing at it!

Marco.

[sastusbulbas]

I think some of us also had the "benefit" or "curse" of large rooms in the past, I certainly did. Most houses were far bigger in the "old" days, I don't think many enthusiasts got rid of large kit because of modern developments making equipment smaller, it was more to do with each consecutive house getting smaller.

One of my old bedrooms had two windows in it (both on the same wall) and a superb view of Edinburgh Castle, it was bigger than my current sitting room. Next to it was a box/Storage room which was larger than one of my current bedrooms.
Kitchens that you could have a dinning table and settee in. Large bathrooms. Sitting rooms with enough space for three 3 seater setee's and a dining suite at the back along with wall units and sideboard. New houses are pathetic by comparison.

Both my previous sitting rooms were of a size that I felt necitated large speakers, (my last sitting room had space for thousands of records on the floor behind the settee). They were huge hard to heat rooms of brick and concrete constructing with real fireplaces. I used to look at speakers such as the Spendor BC1, Kef R105.4, and TL speakers such as my Nightingale's as compact. The 107's were compact and elegant back then too I thought (if tallish).

Most of my larger speakers looked as compact in their old enviroments as many of todays small stand mounts do in thiers, and in many of those old large rooms small speakers could just not do room filling sound. Big rooms required big systems.

Steve