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Thread: Beechwoods' Goldring Lenco GL-75

  1. #21
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Posts: 469
    I'm Greg.

    Default

    Hi Nigel,

    Hmmm, in my view mostly what you have written, complete with illogical and irrelevant analogies on this is I'm afraid rubbish!

    By way of example, compare the failed performance of lightweight TT supports from Lorricraft for Garrard decks with the success of high mass and also CLD (Constrained Layer Dampening) plinths. Remember we are only talking idler drive and direct drive TT's here. The proof of the pudding (as you say) is all the significant numbers of people who have re-discovered these old decks by using these high mass mounting methods. The old method was exactly the light support option that failed to sink energy and so ID and DD TT's gained the reputation of being rumble noisey, became unpopular in the market, followed by the rise of belt drive options culminating in the Linn LP bullshit 12.

    ID and DD TT's can work if mounted correctly. There is good evidence that Slate out performs the high mass wood options even with the CLD. This is about the re-discovery of old equipment which, when mounted properly (not as they were originally marketed) can challenge in performance many expensive modern TT products. Take a Goldring Lenco which can be bought secondhand for about three and sixpence and slot it into a DIY high mass plinth that costs a similar amount to make. Hook up a reasonable arm and cartridge and for less than £450 you can have a TT that out performs a current £3000 (maybe more) deck. Now it may not have the modern visual design aesthetic but can be attractive nevertheless in a retro kind of way.

    I've played with Lenco's and Garrard 401. I currently use my Garrard in Slate. It well out performs my previous Michell GyrOrbe (upgraded Gyro) with HR PSU by a significant margin. That actually is a bargain in comparison with the price of the Michell kit. Slate might appear expensive when you consider you are buying just a cut piece of stone, but when you think of it as a component part of a TT, it actually is bloody cheap.

    Realise this is all about getting the ID and DD TT to work properly. Most modern TT's on the market are flawed because they are external motor rubber band driven. That makes design and production nice and cheap but compromises sound performance. Rubber bands stretch so you don't have the speed precission that makes the music live and acute, not to mention the subtleties on attack on notes or decay on notes.

    If you want to explore a reasonably priced approach to good analogue sound reproduction and don't mind being a bit retro, this is the way to go. If you want the equivalent performance from a new production, be prepared to dig very deep into your wallet.

    Best wishes,

    Greg
    Last edited by Cotlake; 31-08-2008 at 21:05.

  2. #22
    Join Date: Aug 2008

    Location: Leeds West Yorkshire UK

    Posts: 8

    Default To be or not To be...

    Quote Originally Posted by lurcher View Post
    Well, each to his own, but I suspect from what you have written, that your views are almost certainly not based on direct experence?
    I do not have anything else than direct experience to go upon really, same as anyone else. But I do try to balance “my map” and the actual territory so as not to fall off any cliffs. What I have said is more or less true in terms of a modern map of the world. I do not have any axes to grind regarding products Hi Fi or otherwise!
    Frankly I could not care less what is the better or less better turntable, amplifier or loudspeaker but I am very interested as to how it became the best or worst and more so why people think it to be so.
    One thing that is really weird is…How people come to point where they actually believe in something…really believe…like in god or LP12’s or SL1210’s without any semblance of evidence. In the subjective world it is hard to differentiate between what is and what is not and this is the nature of the human condition.
    Newton’s understanding of mass and energy was of considerable value, and on an astronomical scale continues to be so but things have moved on.
    Sorry for the bullshit but I think it’s important to…how do we say?...keep an open mind?
    Shure I’ve heard most Hi Fi products on offer from the past 30 years or so…and well here we all are still discussing their various virtues or otherwise!
    Viewing this forum one might be forgiven for thinking that things have come full circle without gaining any actual knowledge from the trip, no criticism just an observation!

    Best,

    Nigel.

  3. #23
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Posts: 469
    I'm Greg.

    Default

    Hi Nigel,

    You claim direct experience but fail to evidence that.

    You have not presented a foundation from which we can explore your view. Your reply says absolutely nothing about the subject and adds nothing to the discussion. You use lots of words which actually say nothing. The consequence is we all waste time reading it.

    Please come up with something worth responding to.

    Best wishes,

    Greg
    Last edited by Cotlake; 01-09-2008 at 09:35. Reason: self moderation

  4. #24
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Halifax, UK

    Posts: 1,394
    I'm Nick.

    Default

    Oh, well, if thats what you believe, ok, keep reading the Korzybski.

    BTW, the reason that nitrogen is used in tyres is nothing to do with mass, but for better pressure stability.

  5. #25
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Posts: 21

    Default

    I would say Nigels last post is pretty much spot on as far as I see it.

  6. #26
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: North East UK

    Posts: 6,358
    I'm InSpace.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lexi View Post
    I would say Nigels last post is pretty much spot on as far as I see it.
    Err.. okey dokey
    Shian7
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Kudakutemo
    kudakutemo

    ari mizu-no tsuki

    Though it be be broken -
    broken again - still it's there:
    the moon on the water.

    - Choshu.

  7. #27
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,941
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    LOL. 'Alternative' opinions are always welcome

    Lexi, perhaps you would expand a little?

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  8. #28
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Posts: 21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    LOL. 'Alternative' opinions are always welcome

    Lexi, perhaps you would expand a little?

    Marco.
    I wont elaborate. I am just on the forum and I don`t wish to start by disagreeing with a lot that has been said regarding rubber bands and musical sympathys for one.......oops maybe I just did.

    Nigels parable with religion is correct. Hi Fi gear is like a mini religion with people believing many things. Some have an axe to grind some have more money than sense and some look for meaning and a vehicle.

    In another 20 yrs time people may get a good laugh at Lencos and Garrards being brought down from the loft and picked up from junk shops to be given layered plinths in search of musical excellence.

    Don`t get me wrong it`s all great fun and so it should be but I wonder if it is another Blu Tack on headshells with Linn felt mats thrown in.

  9. #29
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,941
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Hi Lexi,

    Your comments, whatever they are, are most welcome so please don't be afraid to say what you think even if it's contrary to the majority of opinion. We don't stifle discussion here just because it's deemed as 'heretical'!

    I'm only passionate about what I use because to my ears (and I analyse things VERY thoroughly) it represents the best I've heard at the sort of prices I would pay for hi-fi. I've got over 25 years of hi-fi experience and in that time I've been exposed to and used all manner of kit so my opinions are based on direct experience and not swayed by any form of 'religion'.

    I don't care what 'badge' hi-fi equipment has or which 'school of audio' it represents - just what sounds superb to my ears; and this is the way it will always be

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & regulator mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat with Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight. Isonoe feet & boots. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm with Denon DL-103GL in a Denon PCL-300 headshell, fitted with Funk Firm Houdini and Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp and Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp, fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.

  10. #30
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Posts: 21

    Default

    Nice post and thanks for the warmth of your words.

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