PC+Caiman DAC = Clicking noise at right channel output

[StanleyB]

Is the WAV track 24 bit/96KHz?

[sum1]

Is the WAV track 24 bit/96KHz?

No. I am having difficulty using Audacity exporting it as a 24/96. So far i only figure out how to export it as 24bit 44khz file and then try playing it back using foobar player and the SoX upsampler to make it 24/96.

[24bit]

have you tried different source ?
CD for example ?
just to establish what is a source of problem, PC, cables, Caiman.
change the cables as well.
For what I understand so far, it's very random.
Have you got very quiet click when you press play/stop on foobar ?
I've listened to audio file, and it's different click to one I know (mentioned above)
don't give up to your Caiman so soon....
I did very precise and thorough tests recently, maybe I'll leave outcome hre if find some time,
and Caiman outperforms other DACS easily, even those more expensive

good luck with it, 'cause it's truly amazing device

[MaCs]

No. I am having difficulty using Audacity exporting it as a 24/96. So far i only figure out how to export it as 24bit 44khz file and then try playing it back using foobar player and the SoX upsampler to make it 24/96.

It seems that our Realtek chips only support 48 kHz. So if you signal at any other sampling rate, the chip resamples it (badly, apparently) to 48 kHz. That's why it works when the signal is first resampled to 48 kHz.

You can test your system with this simple program:

http://ac3filter.net/files/download/spdif_test.exe

Simply run it and click Test.

[sum1]

have you tried different source ?
CD for example ?
just to establish what is a source of problem, PC, cables, Caiman.
change the cables as well.
For what I understand so far, it's very random.
Have you got very quiet click when you press play/stop on foobar ?

Yes i've tried it with my CD player and its fine. Only problem is with the pc and caiman combo. Tried changing most of the stuff like cables, different pc, different methods of connections etc and with a certain combination i can eliminate this issue but it seems to be very picky with what it can work with. The click is not the one that comes with the mute relay when you play/stop a track.

It seems that our Realtek chips only support 48 kHz. So if you signal at any other sampling rate, the chip resamples it (badly, apparently) to 48 kHz. That's why it works when the signal is first resampled to 48 kHz.

You can test your system with this simple program:

http://ac3filter.net/files/download/spdif_test.exe

Simply run it and click Test.

The older AC97 based codec resamples to 48khz all the time but the newer HighDefinitionAudio chips do not necessarily do that. Even if the realtek does resample, i also have m2tech hiface which are known to be bitperfect by its users and it got problems with the clicking as well.

I've also used the realtek optical out briefly with another device such as a chinese NOS dac and apogee mini-dac before and i've never had this issue with it.

[24bit]

I'd say it's Windows/PC issue, not Beresford
If it works with CD without problem, it's simple that PC generates problem not Beresford...
It could be Windows related problem
Can you borrow from your friend/mate a separate audio interface ?
So you can establish it's problem with PC/WIN then with Realtek ?
I have Realtek (I got 2 PCs, one has old Realtek and one has new - 24/96)
I have a dropouts sometimes (for a sec.) when use internet or use PC for other things. It could be some sort of IRQ issue I don't know.
have you tried with USB ?
Is it exactly same thing ?
I use foobar too, can you try different player (Winamp, VLC, etc) and confirm that issue still exist ?

good luck

[Heady]

I'd just like to say - "me too".

When I first got the Camian - I was amazed by the results... but the one thing that worried me was the "clicking" that the unit does. My experience with equipment before the Camian was limited to just flatmates gear - but I'd never heard clicking before - definitely not as loud as the Camian. In fact I was so surprised that I wrote an email to Stanley asking if the "clicking" was normal and if any damage would result. Stanley quite wisely ignored me.

But with the current setup I have - I've been on a slow quest to find out what is causing the "clicking" and trying to eradicate it. As I do find it annoying and spoils an otherwise great sound.

I have two Camian's being driven by ACER Revo's used for listening via headphones for music and video.

The "clicking" I have determined occurs under three cases:

1. When I start or stop playing music. (Annoying - but I can accept).
2. Between music. (Annoying - tying to identify the reason to reduce impact)
3. During music. (Very annoying - and trying to spend some time to find out why).

For cases 1 to 3 (especially 1 & 2) the sound of the clicking is audible external to the Camian and also sounds as a pop through the headphones.

The worst case of 3 I've been able to find is a particular version of the MIRAMAX logo soundtrack shown before some DVD movies. The "clicking" sounds like a machine gun.

From what I've learnt from this forum and others is that possible causes for case 1 could be the DAC gating. Some suggest that some DAC designers do this so that measurement results are better during silence. I think I read somewhere on this forum that it might also be a specific command code being sent to the Camian, whereby the Camian happily processes the command code as a valid sample. I've yet to spend time looking into this case.

A possible cause for case 2 is either the same as case 1 or could be a change in sample rate between songs (for example). I've tried spending some time looking at points in the source that cause this - but I have not been able to find anything obvious to the eye as yet. The search continues.

Case 3 is the most annoying for me and I've spent the most time looking (well a few hours at least). What I've been able to identify are two separate scenarios. One scenario where the source is actually at fault and the other is a little like case 2 and I've yet to identify anything out of the ordinary.

One of the cases I've just tracked down is the source of the pops I hear in the high resolution FLAC streamed from Český rozhlas D-Dur. In this specific case it appears to be a data corruption problem in a buffer somewhere in their processing chain. As the click appears in a spectrogram as a solid event from DC to day-light in a fairly constant interval with energy dependent on surrounding energy. In some cases the "click" is masked by the music - other times it is quite audible. I've got some good screen captures showing this issue (I was going to include but I not sure if AOS has a preferred image host).

So one investigation down - score Caiman 1 - Source 0.

As time and interests permit - I'll look into the other cases I've identified.

Just confirms I suppose what Stanley says: the Camian is unforgiving of the source and takes no prisoners.

[HighFidelityGuy]

Hi Heady, welcome to AoS,

Do the clicks that you hear sound the same in each of your 3 cases or do some cases produces louder more harsh clicks? Also, what type of connection are you using between your PC and Caiman? Coax, Optical or USB? And what brand of this cable are you using?
Also, what software are you using to play your source material and what operating system are you using? Win XP, Vista, Win 7, Linux of some sort etc...

Cheers.

P.S. Don't forget to say hi in the welcome area and put your first name in your signature as per the forum rules.

[sdo_riga]

Hi,

I would like to say 'me too' as well.

I had the initial joy of listening to Caiman's output for a couple of hours the evening I got the unit. Then I started trying tracks from different artists and noticed the 'clicks' at start and end. I tried both Coaxil and Optical S/PDIF from my VIA HD Envy on Asus P7P55D Deluxe motherboard without much luck. Next morning I connected Caiman to PS 3 Slim through optical S/PDIF and managed to recreate the same 'clicks' at the start and at the end of each 'track' from the source.

I did not hear the clicks in the middle of a track.

I used both Sony V-600 and AKG K-702 for the tests. As for tracks, I tried from 16-bit 44KHz to 24-bit, 96KHz.

It was mentioned in the thread that if one uses an S/PDIF from a CD Player, the 'clicks' do not pop. What's the difference between S/PDIF streams produced by a PC and a CD player? In the stream turned on and off for each track in case of a PC and constantly on in case of CD player?

/Dmitry

[Clive]

I rip my CDs to WAVs then convert to FLAC, with both formats I use just a single file per CD, not one file per track. Maybe this is what's needed to prevent the clicking?