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Thread: Mike new plinth????

  1. #1
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

    Default Mike new plinth????

    This is very very embryonic but i've spoken to Mike and asked about the possibility of a brand new plinth replacement. I highlighted to Mike that I'd like a single billet design and thus eliminating rubber base plate, inner aluminium chassis and the top plinth, hopefully we could get rid of the strobe button and pitch slider. It'll be expensive due to the soaring costs of aluminium but I think it would probably be one of the single biggest upgrade for the 1210. Mike has a design ready but would like feedback from other AOS'ers regarding the feasability of such a project. OK guys its up to you.

  2. #2
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: Cricklewood

    Posts: 9,074
    I'm ILOB.

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    Its worth ago for sure but I think only worth considering if you done everything else.
    Basically what you done is created a whole new TT
    Loves anything from Pain of Salvation to Jeff Buckley to Django to Sarasate to Surinder Sandhu to Shawn Lane to Nick Drake to Rush to Beth Hart to Kate Bush to Rodrigo Y Gabriela to The Hellecasters to Dark Sanctury to Ben Harper to Karicus to Dream Theater to Zero Hour to Al DiMeola to Larry Carlton to Derek Trucks to Govt Mule to?

    Humour: One of the few things worth taking seriously

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    I'd be up for it, but I don't think that a single type of material (least of all metal) is the answer. In my view, it would be a recipe for achieving a rather clinical sound, especially as the Techie already has those tendencies. For me, wood would have to feature somewhere in order to add some warmth.

    The most sonically effective plinths I believe are those which are designed around a 'sandwich' effect of different materials, such as slate and various hardwoods, as what one is striving for is effective isolation, but not at the expense of one material dominating with its contrubuted sonic signature.

    This is where the 'sandwich' idea would come in, as one is harnessing the effect of combining the isolation and sonic properties of various materials.

    I'd therefore be open to suggestions on the design of a suitable plinth along those lines

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #4
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

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    Have you seen the review of Dr. Feikharts turntable in hifi world? This is pretty much a sandwhich of wood and aluminium. I've also looked at several plinths for my 301 and a multi-layered wooden sandwhich seems to recieve glowing reviews.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Yes, that's why I think it works! The 'sandwich effect' with wood and metal (I'd also put some slate in there, too) is definitely the way

    I'm not sure though if Mike can work with wood or slate as well as he can with metal...

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #6
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: Cricklewood

    Posts: 9,074
    I'm ILOB.

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    I had the super scoutmaster which was a wood aluminium sandwich and worked well but many think arcylic and metal sandwich is better it might be worth speaking to someone like James Heriot
    Loves anything from Pain of Salvation to Jeff Buckley to Django to Sarasate to Surinder Sandhu to Shawn Lane to Nick Drake to Rush to Beth Hart to Kate Bush to Rodrigo Y Gabriela to The Hellecasters to Dark Sanctury to Ben Harper to Karicus to Dream Theater to Zero Hour to Al DiMeola to Larry Carlton to Derek Trucks to Govt Mule to?

    Humour: One of the few things worth taking seriously

  7. #7
    MartinT Guest

    Default

    The Technics composite sandwich is an excellent design. Don't be too certain that an alternative design will actually sound better.

  8. #8
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Nottingham UK

    Posts: 550
    I'm ThinkingOfHorns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    I had the super scoutmaster which was a wood aluminium sandwich and worked well but many think arcylic and metal sandwich is better it might be worth speaking to someone like James Heriot
    I'm using an early VPI HW19 base (well I think that's what it is!) with my DP-6000 to great effect. It uses a 'sandwich' type top plinth which I think is made from steel plates & a fibrous type material, not sure what it is tbh, could be wood, tufnol, cork? It's very heavy & pretty dead to a knuckle rap! I bought it to get the DP-6000 up & running, but am so far very impressed!

    I've done a little reading over the last few months & liked the composition of Mitch Cotters old B1 plinth/base that worked very well with the SP10 & DP-6000. Cotter used aluminium & some sort of plastic 'sandwich' & my thoughts were to try an aluminium/acrylic top plinth for it's rigidity, weight & damping through the 2 different materials.

    I bought the VPI as a start point my thinking being, I could use the VPI lower plinth & spring suspension/Isolation with aluminium/acrylic or slate top plinth maybe!?

    A guy over on the Wam pointed out a new site that a guy called 'cat squirrel' had put together after alot of research & measurements into damping factors & this proves to be very interesting! Cat Squirrel uses Ider drives (lenco IIRC) so damping is probably more important because of rumble, but there's still advantages to be gained for DD or even the belt drives by using a plinth material with a better damping factor! I will link the site for anyone wanting further reading, but it seems a couple of materials came out on top, them being "Newplast" & a reconstructed wood called "Panzerholz". Most of the often used materials don't come out so well i.e. ply-wood, Mdf, Slate, metals etc.

    In recent past mass seems to of been what we've looked for in multi-layer ply-wood & slate type plinths. This research into damping factors says that the plinth thickness & WxD measurements are directly related & for a size of plinth will have an optimum thickness! It's very interesting reading indeed!

    Jonjin who pointed out this site has gone on to build a "Panzerholz" plinth for his SP10 (well I think Russ Collinson did the cutting as Panzerholz is very hard in fact bullit proof) The results he's getting sound very very good indeed! An improvement may-be over the tombstone slate plinths it seems (not that JJ's A-B tested them)! So I think my next port of call will be to order some "Panzerholz" & see how it compares to my steel/fibrous sandwich!

    Here's "cat squirrels sites & research...

    http://qualia.webs.com/plinths.htm

    http://qualia.webs.com/dampingfactorvalues.htm

    And here's Jonjin's thread about his SP10 plinth over on the Wam

    http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread...plinth-project


    Some very interesting reading anyway & does seem to bare out with JJ's plinth project!

    Cheers, alfie.
    alfie
    Main System: Denon DP-6000 VPI Base/Fidelity Research FR64s/Ortofon SPU Royal GM MKII/Shelter 901/Auditorium 23 SUT/Pure Sound P10/SB Touch or Audio Note CDT & M2Tech Young Dac/BL Audio LP-1/New Audio Frontiers KT66 Legend/Living Voice OBX.
    2nd System: PC/Foobar/E-MU 0404 pci (Modded)/AVI ADM9/Rel Strata II subs.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Huddersfield

    Posts: 3,359
    I'm David.

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    Acetal (Delrin) is the material to go for IMHO, I am getting one made for my Techie when I get chance to to an autocad drawing for it! That with the Oyaide mat on top for mass and the weight will be a product to die for, opinions differ of course!

  10. #10
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Nottingham UK

    Posts: 550
    I'm ThinkingOfHorns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mains Cables R Us View Post
    Acetal (Delrin) is the material to go for IMHO, .............. opinions differ of course!
    What brings you to this conclusion Dave?

    I'm all for listening to a product & judging it's merits that way!
    But I'm finding this 'Damping factor' research quite interesting, adding a little science to plinth building!

    Acetal used alone is someway behind alot of materials from damping factor point of view, if all cat squirrels measurements are to be believed!
    alfie
    Main System: Denon DP-6000 VPI Base/Fidelity Research FR64s/Ortofon SPU Royal GM MKII/Shelter 901/Auditorium 23 SUT/Pure Sound P10/SB Touch or Audio Note CDT & M2Tech Young Dac/BL Audio LP-1/New Audio Frontiers KT66 Legend/Living Voice OBX.
    2nd System: PC/Foobar/E-MU 0404 pci (Modded)/AVI ADM9/Rel Strata II subs.

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