View Poll Results: Should a Hadcock be used with damping fluid?

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  • Yes - It's essential.

    8 88.89%
  • No - It's a waste of time.

    1 11.11%
  • Who cares? - It makes no difference at all.

    0 0%
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Thread: Hadcock Tonearms.

  1. #1
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: North East UK

    Posts: 6,365
    I'm InSpace.

    Default Hadcock Tonearms.

    Here's a question for all you Hadcock aficionados;

    Silicone damping fluid, use the arm with, or without it?

    I'm asking because my used example arrived with a sort of filthy sludge in it which I've obviously cleaned out and it seems happy enough without it. Or does it?... I've commented elsewhere about the 'cone-flap' problem I currently have and I'm wondering if this lack of damping fluid might be exacerbating this phenomenon?

    If I need some of this fluid what grade is it and where do I obtain it?


    Cheers...
    Shian7
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Kudakutemo
    kudakutemo

    ari mizu-no tsuki

    Though it be be broken -
    broken again - still it's there:
    the moon on the water.

    - Choshu.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Posts: 116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shian7 View Post
    Here's a question for all you Hadcock aficionados;

    Silicone damping fluid, use the arm with, or without it?

    I'm asking because my used example arrived with a sort of filthy sludge in it which I've obviously cleaned out and it seems happy enough without it. Or does it?... I've commented elsewhere about the 'cone-flap' problem I currently have and I'm wondering if this lack of damping fluid might be exacerbating this phenomenon?

    If I need some of this fluid what grade is it and where do I obtain it?


    Cheers...
    J7 sells it Mike (audio origami) i imagine it is better with it than without myself.
    Regards, John.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Halifax, UK

    Posts: 1,411
    I'm Nick.

    Default

    I can't answer your poll, as I don't use it, but I wouldn't say it was a wast of time. I don't use a amp that uses feedback to try and give it a response to DC, so that might hide a problem. I would have thought testing the resonance frequencies with a test disk would be worth doing.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,089
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Yep, I'd go with some fluid damping - not too much, though.

    It's something that has to be fine tuned by ear. I've got some spare silicone fluid left over from the KAB bits you can have Mike when you come down, if you can wait until then. It's in a syringe all ready to squirt in

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  5. #5
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with far away trains passing by...

    Posts: 14,557
    I'm David.

    Default

    When I used to set/re-glue these arms up (along with Mayware) I always used just enough damping fluid to stop the arm top wobbling all over the place (they weren't as self stabilising as an ARO from what I remember). Remember the car suspension analogy - it should rebound once and then settle, or summat like that...

    Whatever I dislike about the (you've been) 'ad cock, they could sound very fine, especially with Deccas. I'm surprised they still exist. I'd have thought early ones would have fallen apart by now and new ones seem very expensive considering the finish still isn't up to much (IMO of course)...
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  6. #6
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Halifax, UK

    Posts: 1,411
    I'm Nick.

    Default

    Odd, mine seems to be very stable, it seems to be near critically damped without the need of silicon.

  7. #7
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,089
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Dave,

    The latest 'cocks (ooh-er) are finished to a much higher standard. I bought a brand new GH-242 Integra about 2 and a half years ago and it was finished immaculately - sounded great too, but it was on an LP12

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  8. #8
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Bristol, UK

    Posts: 411
    I'm Greg.

    Default

    A well researched guy in this area is James Doddington. You'll find alot of his educational posts on various forums albeit that for about 18 months he's been very silent owing to work commitments. He is a bit of a Guru and always runs his uni-pivots dry only on the basis if the system will allow it. He therefore advocates the dry approach for both Mayware and Hadcock.

    Having said that, if you do feel the need to damp with silicon solution, there are several options on different viscosity through Model Making shops, particularly those that major on model car racing.

    This thing has the potential to be very anal. Is silicon solution needed? Which viscosity is right for your personal application? How much quantity do you need? I don't actually have the answers but I suppose this message is intended to reveal what a 'can of worms' the whole thing is.

    My head tells me, try and run dry because that has been recommended by some well respected DIY hi-fi people. If your system/unipivot doesn't like it, comply with solution volume (fill to the level as recommended by the manufacturer) and start with a low viscosity solution. As said, it'll be an anal thing and if you're up for it, thereafter experiment with thicker solutions until you have established your ultimate anologue TT sound presentation.

    Best wishes,

    Greg

  9. #9
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,089
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Yep, when I had the Integra I ran it 'dry', and it sounded great, so no doubt you're right, Greg. The only thing that made me say to Mike to try some silicon was the effect it had on the arm on my 1210 (with a 103 Pro) - the damping trough and silicon fluid makes a pretty big difference to the arm's performance, but then it's not a Hadcock...

    Doesn't it depend on the cartridge used, too? I believe that Deccas, for example, liked some silicon damping.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #10
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Redcar By The Sea - Sand With Everything

    Posts: 2,232
    I'm Andy.

    Default


    Mike
    I would certainly go with the Silicon damping fluid, by coincidence I have some of the J7 stuff at home. I use it in my Audiocraft tonearm. You are more than welcome to have the spare syringe full. In fact one syringe is more than enough for a lifetime of trials.
    As a thought my tonearm is adjustable for the amount of damping, although I have the Silicon in the tonearm I actually have the adjustment set to minimum. So if the volume of Silicon on the Hadcock equates to different amount of applied damping I would start off with little and move up from there, it is also quite easy to remove excess fluid too.

    Andy - SDDW
    Andy - SDDW

    Electrical Engineer - Bio-Mass Power Station


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