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Thread: Garrard vs Michell

  1. #1
    Join Date: Jul 2010

    Location: Dewsbury West Yorkshire

    Posts: 619
    I'm Jason.

    Default Garrard vs Michell

    Hi guy's, I hope someone can help I am thinking about getting a garrard 301 with sme arm old type. I have at the moment a Michell gyro se spider, upgrades are orb platter hr power supply arm is rega rb300 rewired, with techno weight. I just wondered if anyone could rate both these decks pro' and con's. The reason I am thinking about the garrard is I have owned vintage hi fi in the past rogers cadet,valve amps esl 57s and they sounded excellent better than most modern hi fi I have listened to, so I guess I am thinking a vintage turntable like the garrard could be better than my michell

  2. #2
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with far away trains passing by...

    Posts: 14,560
    I'm David.

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    I dare say your Gyrorb will be by far the quieter of the two, but may have a slightly "swimmy" sense of pitch as I remember. Suspension fettling is very difficult with these and can make matters worse unless Michell have improved things in recent years.

    Garrards are, well, Garrards, with this huge warm hearted sound mainly favouring the centre mono image over extreme left and right. Motor noise and the harmonics thereof will always be there in the very background and exactly how much will depend on plinth suitability, power supply (or not) and the tolerances in manufacture, something all Garrards post early sixties suffered from (could even have been the bean counters at Plessey having something to do with it for all I know).

    I love the 401, its styling and the feeling I get whenever I see one (seeing Alex's 401 in white painted HW plinth recently reminded me). 301's are similar but possibly better in one or two ways. The pre "Improved" SME 3009's are lovely too and can take most modern cartridges with ease, as long as either a modern Sumiko style headshell is used, or the SME shell loaded with the blac-tac they provided for the purpose of cartridge coupling - worked too...
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  3. #3
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

    Posts: 2,753
    I'm Clive.

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    Jason, I moved from a Gyrorb with HR PS and Tecnoarm to a 301. Getting enough treble from the 301 was a fight but it can be done. Generalizing greatly I would say the Gyrorb sounds thin in comparison to the rich sounding 301 which also pounds out the bass in a propulsive way.
    TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
    TT 2 Garrard 301 with NWA main bearing + Audiomods Series Six 10.5" + Ortofon 2M Mono SE
    Digital Lindemann Limetree Network Bridge / Chord Qutest
    Preamp Hagerman Cornet 2 phono stage / Temple Audio Suppercap Phono Stage / John Chapman's Slagleformer-based AVC-1 / Transcendent Sound Sub Buddy
    Power Amp Temple Audio Monoblocks with Supercap LPS / 300B WE91 SE Monoblocks / Firebottle EL84 PSE
    Bass Amp & DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP x 2
    Speakers 1 Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo with twin baffleless 15" bass drivers per side
    Speakers 2 MarkaudioSota Viotti One

  4. #4
    Join Date: Aug 2010

    Location: Montseny National Park, Catalonia

    Posts: 3,255
    I'm John.

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    Hmm, I would be a bit careful here not to let the wood and nostalgia brigade rule out what I believe is a fine turntable in the SE Spider.
    A lot is going to depend on the arm and cartridge combination you settle on.
    One of my main Hi Fi conspirators has the SE+HR power supply with a haddcock GH242SE with an Ortofon rohmann and if the Garrard 301 with an SME 3009 outperforms that I would be surprised.
    When I’ve listened to this combo it’s sounded delightfully musical with all the weight one could wish for.
    While “newer” isn’t necessarily “better” than older, the reverse doesn’t necessarily apply either.
    I would be very careful here and try some combinations out before you take anyone advice.
    Single spur balanced Mains. Self built music server with 3 seperate linear PSU, Intel i5, 16 GB RAM no hard drive (various Linux OS). Benchmark Dac2 HGC, single ended XLR interconnects/Belkin cable. Exposure 21RC Pre, Super 18 Power (recap & modified). Modded World Audio HD83 HP amp. Hand built Monitors with external crossovers , Volt 250 bass & ABR, Scanspeak 13M8621 Mid & Scanspeak D2905/9300 Hi. HD595 & Beyer 880 (600 ohm) cans.

    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.
    -Bertrand Russel

    John.

  5. #5
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with far away trains passing by...

    Posts: 14,560
    I'm David.

    Default

    301? lack of treble energy?

    Get a decent unipivot arm like a NAS and...

    GET A BLEEDIN' DECCA!!!!!!!!!

    A 301 really comes into its own with a London Decca, I KNOW these things
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  6. #6
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

    Posts: 2,753
    I'm Clive.

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    Dave, check my signature....

    Re arms, it's great with the airbearing T3Pro too.
    TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
    TT 2 Garrard 301 with NWA main bearing + Audiomods Series Six 10.5" + Ortofon 2M Mono SE
    Digital Lindemann Limetree Network Bridge / Chord Qutest
    Preamp Hagerman Cornet 2 phono stage / Temple Audio Suppercap Phono Stage / John Chapman's Slagleformer-based AVC-1 / Transcendent Sound Sub Buddy
    Power Amp Temple Audio Monoblocks with Supercap LPS / 300B WE91 SE Monoblocks / Firebottle EL84 PSE
    Bass Amp & DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP x 2
    Speakers 1 Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo with twin baffleless 15" bass drivers per side
    Speakers 2 MarkaudioSota Viotti One

  7. #7
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: Cricklewood

    Posts: 9,081
    I'm ILOB.

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    Decca rules
    Loves anything from Pain of Salvation to Jeff Buckley to Django to Sarasate to Surinder Sandhu to Shawn Lane to Nick Drake to Rush to Beth Hart to Kate Bush to Rodrigo Y Gabriela to The Hellecasters to Dark Sanctury to Ben Harper to Karicus to Dream Theater to Zero Hour to Al DiMeola to Larry Carlton to Derek Trucks to Govt Mule to?

    Humour: One of the few things worth taking seriously

  8. #8
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with far away trains passing by...

    Posts: 14,560
    I'm David.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    Dave, check my signature....

    Re arms, it's great with the airbearing T3Pro too.
    That makes three or four of us then
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  9. #9
    Join Date: Jul 2009

    Location: Hampshire, UK

    Posts: 2,836
    I'm Buriedunderaloadofturntables.

    Default

    The Gyrodec is one of my absolute favourite modern turntables. It has a big-hearted sense of musicality, fine timing and some of the best lateral soundstaging you are likely to find from a vinyl spinner. Every time I see one I remind myself that I really MUST add one to the Beobloke collection one day and, believe me, I will!

    That said, I absolutely adore my 301. The treble can be a bit veiled with the wrong partnering ancillaries but it times like nothing else out there and has the sort of bass grunt that can cause pain! That said, though, it's not all boom and bang, with a detailed and fleet-of-foot upper bass and a superbly focused midrange.

    As far as i can see, though, your two options will sound quite different and it depends what you really want to achieve. The Gyro and RB300 is a fine combo and the 301/3009 is a classic one, but ultimately the 3009 will limit the performance available from the 301. The old SME is a lovely thing but it really has been somewhat surpassed sonically.

    I'd go one of two routes, personally -

    (1) Forget the 301, sell the RB300 and put the funds towards an SME V (just like fish & chips, beef & Yorkshire pud and toast & Marmite, Michell & SME are just MEANT to be!).

    (2) Sell the GyrOrbe, buy a 301, stick it in a decent plinth and bung something like a Jelco SA-750D, Roksan Nima or Consonance ST-988 arm on it.

    Either way, you'll have a storming turntable.
    Adam.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Cheshire, UK

    Posts: 2,753
    I'm Clive.

    Default

    Re John's (Welder) wood comment....there's no wood near my 301, it's on a twin tier slate plinth.

    BTW, the Salvation significantly outperforms the 301, it would destroy a Gyrorb. All IMO and to my personal taste.
    TT 1 Trans-Fi Salvation with magnetic bearing + Trans-Fi Terminator T3Pro + London Reference
    TT 2 Garrard 301 with NWA main bearing + Audiomods Series Six 10.5" + Ortofon 2M Mono SE
    Digital Lindemann Limetree Network Bridge / Chord Qutest
    Preamp Hagerman Cornet 2 phono stage / Temple Audio Suppercap Phono Stage / John Chapman's Slagleformer-based AVC-1 / Transcendent Sound Sub Buddy
    Power Amp Temple Audio Monoblocks with Supercap LPS / 300B WE91 SE Monoblocks / Firebottle EL84 PSE
    Bass Amp & DSP Behringer iNuke NU3000DSP x 2
    Speakers 1 Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo with twin baffleless 15" bass drivers per side
    Speakers 2 MarkaudioSota Viotti One

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