+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: Stylus tracking force.

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 7,005
    I'm James.

    Default Stylus tracking force.

    I have for many years always used a digital stylus scale/balance to set up my VTF on the turntable but have done this with the turntable mat in place. The mat is about 1.5mm - 2mm thick. However recently I have read somewhere that it is best to adjust the stylus tracking force without the mat in place.

    This would obviously make a fair bit of difference so I was wondering what other folk did.

    Do you set up you stylus tracking force with or without mat in place?
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  2. #2
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,603
    I'm Adrian.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I have for many years always used a digital stylus scale/balance to set up my VTF on the turntable but have done this with the turntable mat in place. The mat is about 1.5mm - 2mm thick. However recently I have read somewhere that it is best to adjust the stylus tracking force without the mat in place.

    This would obviously make a fair bit of difference so I was wondering what other folk did.

    Do you set up you stylus tracking force with or without mat in place?
    My TT mat is fixed being bonded to the platter and I have not played around with mats on top, just followed the manufacturers guidance. I setup the VTF now using Pro-Ject electronic gauge, with it directly on the platter/mat when the stylus is on the gauge then it is very close to being at the height of a 120-140gm record, so should be reasonably accurate. https://www.project-audio.com/en/product/measure-it-e/ There are similar ones to this on Ebay etc.

    With respect to mat height, if this an addition to your TT then you should probably consider looking at the VTA(Vertical Tracking Angle) first, most cartridges specify around a 21 degree cantilever angle to the record for optimum play back, I have personally found this can be variable though. There is somewhere a long thread on VTA and Azimuth. With VTA I have found general that if the tonearm tube is a parallel tube, not tapered then getting it parallel to the top of a flat record when the stylus is in the groove is a good place to start. I use a mid thickness record for this and then tweak the arm up or down at the rear until I hit the sweet spot for my ears. I then also listen with a few favourite tracks, female vocal like Eva Cassidy Fields of Gold is a good one for example. If you are getting sibilance then the rear of the arm maybe too high, if is sounds a bit bassy then it is too low at the rear. If I recall correctly a 9 inch arm will indeed require nearly 4mm (3.989) of movement of VTA to make a 1 degree change in SRA(stylus rake angle).

    This is a very good reference and guide https://www.theabsolutesound.com/art...o-cartridge-1/

    I always go back and check VTF if I change VTA or Azimuth, just to ensure it is still correct.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 7,005
    I'm James.

    Default

    Thanks for the info and feedback Adrian
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  4. #4
    Join Date: Jan 2022

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire

    Posts: 113
    I'm Shaun.

    Default

    For what it's worth, I have always set it up with the mat in place and no one has ever condemned me for it including local dealers. I have always found though this bit of vinyl setup a pain in the arse.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enossification View Post
    For what it's worth, I have always set it up with the mat in place and no one has ever condemned me for it including local dealers. I have always found though this bit of vinyl setup a pain in the arse.
    i did same. should keep it right if you use one of the old, thicker than average records as it will be between normal and 180/200 versions
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  6. #6
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 33,468
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Always set the VTF with the mat in place.
    Barry

  7. #7
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 33,468
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Obsessives in the US have been known to adjust the SRA each time they play a record, to allow for the various thicknesses.
    Barry

  8. #8
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

    Posts: 15,817
    I'm Steve.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Obsessives in the US have been known to adjust the SRA each time they play a record, to allow for the various thicknesses.
    I bet they get invited to all the best parties
    I just dropped in, to see what condition my condition was in

    T/T: Inspire Monarch, X200 tonearm, Ortofon Quintet Blue. Phono: Project Tube Box CD: Marantz CD6006 (UK Edition); Amp: Musical Fidelity A5 Integrated.
    Speakers: Zu Omen Def, REL T9i subwoofer. Cables: Atlas Equator interconnects, Atlas Hyper 3.0 speaker cables

    T'other system:
    Echo Dot, Arcam A75 integrated, Celestion 5's, BK XLS-200 DF

    A/V:
    LG 55" OLED, Panasonic Blu Ray, Sony a/v amp, MA Radius speakers,


    KICKSTARTER: ENABLING SCAMMERS SINCE 2009

  9. #9
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 7,005
    I'm James.

    Default

    I think I will stick to setting up with mat in place. My balance has a staggered platform that puts the stylus at roughly the correct height of a 180g record when weighing on the balance. That should be fairly close to an accurate assessment of VTF?
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  10. #10
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 33,468
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Agreed. I always start with the maximum recommended tracking force, less 0.25g, and gradually reduce it by ear.
    Barry

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •