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Thread: For lovers of vintage Japanese 80s CDPs

  1. #21
    Join Date: Jan 2008

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    Hi Dave,

    The tiny manufacturers can't do the battleship construction that Sony and Philips could achieve in quantity back then.
    Indeed, but neither do Sony and Philips anymore in the design of their current CDPs, so it's not just that small manufacturers can't afford to design 'battleship-build' players, it's also because large manufacturers don't bother anymore because the demand isn't there, and so quality suffers yet again as the Jap electronic giants pander to the needs of the mass-market.

    It's yet another example in audio of standards having fallen in the pursuit of convenience/chasing the 'latest and greatest' new technology (when often in terms of out-and-out audio performance it is far from that)...

    You know Marco, I really don't believe you have to spend £8000+ on a CD player to get the best, unless jewellery finish is important. DAC chipsets are cheaper than ever and the only decent mechs available for CD only are very thin on the ground. I believe Philips still does one with cast chassis and everyone else uses a DVD/CD-Rom drive derivative I understand.
    It's just a ballpark figure, Dave. However, the Philips mech of which you speak is merely 'ok' but nothing really special compared to top-notch mechs of old, the likes of which you'll find in my 1989/1990 vintage Sony X-777ES or the 55ES, shown earlier.

    What I'm talking about in terms of state of the art these days, CD transport-wise, is the Teac VRDS Neo unit shown here:




    Just look at it, solid diecast metal and built like a brick shithouse! That's what is necessary for musical information on CD to be read (and thus processed via the DAC) as absolutely accurately as possible, and which cannot be achieved with inferior transport mechanisms, certainly the plastic DVD-ROM shite used largely nowadays!

    More info: http://www.esoteric.jp/technology/vrdsneo/indexe.html


    ...and which is featured in the likes of the Esoteric P-05 CD/SACD transport, shown here:

    http://esoteric.teac.com/transports/p-05/

    ...with matching DAC: http://esoteric.teac.com/dacs/d-05/

    That's 'hi-end' at its best, with the money being spent on foo-free solid engineering principles, with real quality going on 'under the hood', as opposed to the 'all fur coat and no knickers' approach of so much 'hi-end' equipment today, which flatters to deceive.

    I believe the cost of each unit is around £4.5k, hence my estimate of approx £8-10k to do justice to what CD is truly capable of with a modern player.

    Based on experience, it would take something of that calibre to rival my vintage Audiocom-modified Sony CDP/DAC. Anything less than that is just simply no contest!

    Marco.
    Main System

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  2. #22
    Join Date: Jun 2010

    Location: Southampton

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    That is a sexy looking mech.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    'all fur coat and no knickers'
    Might not be any good for CD players, but it is exactly how I like my women.

  3. #23
    Join Date: Jul 2010

    Location: North Cambs UK, Earth, Sol, Orion - Cygnus arm of galaxy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Just look at it, solid diecast metal and built like a brick shithouse!
    Sounds like my Krell, all 3 stone of it
    Bests, Mark



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  4. #24
    Join Date: May 2008

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    Just make sure your Krell has inside what it's supposed to have. Has it ever been serviced and if so, where did it go?
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  5. #25
    Join Date: Feb 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    Just make sure your Krell has inside what it's supposed to have. Has it ever been serviced and if so, where did it go?
    ?
    explain yourself sir!
    anthony,TD...
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  6. #26
    Join Date: Jul 2010

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    Just make sure your Krell has inside what it's supposed to have. Has it ever been serviced and if so, where did it go?
    Yes, it does have a proper Philips CDM-3 transport

    Not sure if it's ever been serviced tbh but it never misses a beat & reads every disc i own (CDRs included), never skips & search is as fast as you could wish for. The LED display also works 100%, these are known to be problematic & known to fail.

    It also sounds like the thing cost £10,000 which i believe it actually did back in the early 90s

    It's mint & had very little use from what i gathered from the seller, the former i can testify to The latter could be correct considering the whole transports perfect functionality.

    Oh, by the way, if you weren't refering to the CDM-3 transport then like Anthony i'd also be interested in what you were refering to

    Apologies for going off topic
    Last edited by Reid Malenfant; 16-09-2010 at 20:13. Reason: typo
    Bests, Mark



    "We must believe in free will. We have no choice" Isaac Bashevis Singer

  7. #27
    Join Date: Jun 2009

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    My Micromega runs the Phillips CDM mech, i think thry retailed at around £1600 way back when circa 1990, thats a transport only as well, it has a funny 5 minutes now and again and refuses to read some cd's initially but on the whole it's pretty good, don't forget to put the puck on or else you get a frisbee
    Jon


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  8. #28
    Join Date: Mar 2009

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    Probably a good thing for my wallet that someone has bought it because I think I was about to...
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  9. #29
    Join Date: Mar 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I'd agree with that, Dave.

    However, today's mid-priced players may sound as good compared to one of the Sony players above in stock form, but when the latter are judiciously modified, and the sonic restriction of aging out-of-spec capacitors removed (amongst other internal component upgrades carried out), it becomes a whole different ball game, and in my experience modern players are comprehensively outperformed (simply because the fundamental 'raw ingredients' are generally of a much higher standard in the best vintage players), thus one ends up with a genuine hi-end machine 'on the cheap', able to rival the very best.

    It's all about starting off with the highest quality ingredients.... Marrying the best vintage players with the best new technology in terms of modern components = having the best of BOTH worlds! Personally, as a perfectionist, I hate compromises

    90% of today's CD players aren't engineered to last, or even built with the same 'cost no object' design principles, as were largely the vintage Sonys mentioned above during the heyday of CD, when manufacturers strove for perfection and had a customer base willing to pay for the privilege of owning the best; in fact quite the opposite, they are 'built to a price' under the premise that the heyday of CD is long since gone and customers nowadays (out with of the most devoted) are satisfied with something adequate rather than exceptional, mainly perhaps because they've never experienced 'exceptional' to appreciate it.

    My advice for people, as far as digital goes these days, is to forget all about CDPs and go the route of computer streaming with a high quality DAC, unless you have a huge CD collection, want to hear it at its best, and don't have the time or inclination to rip them all to a hard drive.

    In that case, either fork out at least £8-10k on a modern 'hi-end' player (yes it costs that much to do it right with a commercial product these days), which has genuinely been designed to get the best out of the CD format (Esoteric players come to mind in that respect), or for maximum SPPV, go the vintage/modification route and get the same results (or better) for a fraction of the cost.

    *That* is the way to do it, if you love digital audio and want to hear it at its best!

    Marco.
    Yep ,agreed Marco.I've heard your dac and it is very good indeed,though as I've said before,it bloody well should be given what you've spent on it!

  10. #30
    Join Date: Jul 2010

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonboy View Post
    don't forget to put the puck on or else you get a frisbee


    Funny you mention that now i think about it

    When i first received the DT10 i opened the draw to put a disc in & test it & let out a rather loud "where the hell is the puck". Please feel free to substitute some other swear word for "hell"

    A quick blast with a torch inside the deck revealed that it's inside & lowers onto the mechanism as soon as the draw closes
    Bests, Mark



    "We must believe in free will. We have no choice" Isaac Bashevis Singer

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