Has DAC development run its course?

[Macca]

Like the car industry, the hifi industry always has to keep reinventing wheel in order to sell more. I feel digital audio is a classic example of this where it has moved from a simple DAC in a CD player to stand alone DACs, Hi Rez, DSD,MQA, R2R, Galvanic isolation, better PSU, re clocking etc etc. I am sure much of this technology has benefits in digital audio and has moved the SQ obtained from digital along way from CD? Surely?

No, not really. It's not easy to find a CD player, even one from the 1980s, that has audible issues. It's not hard to buy one off ebay for little money and do this comparison for yourself. Do they all sound the same? No, I don't think so, but a different presentation is not the same thing as different quality of reproduction

Digital audio is mathematics so the parameters are completely defined. Is it possible to do this even better than we have now - to the extent we could hear it? I don't see how that can be possible.

You may be able to find a DAC or CD player that has a lot of noise from the power supply that degrades the sound but that has nothing to do with the DAC itself, or any of the intrinsic technology, it's just poor implementation.

[Jimbo]

I know a number of folk who have returned to a simple CDP set up and actually prefer it to all the FBA, HiREZ, seperate DAC, seperate Clock, separate PSU set up.

[Macca]

I know a number of folk who have returned to a simple CDP set up and actually prefer it to all the FBA, HiREZ, seperate DAC, seperate Clock, separate PSU set up.

well I personally just use a £130 DAC and a £470 transport, nothing else because on paper it's perfect.

But subjectively? Well I go to the shows and the meets etc, I've even had people bring their own equipment here for comparisons. If I ever do find something that sounds better to me I will be buying it. The money is not an issue. But I'm not holding my breath for that.

Streaming is more complex, more potential pitfalls. I don't think that intrinsically streaming will sound better or worse than CD playback, but keeping it simple means less chance of screwing it up.

[Jimbo]

I agree simplicity is often the key to good sound quality. The more complex a set up the more areas you have to introduce glitches and issues as I have found out with File based audio.

Like you I am not holding my breath expecting a leap in digital technology or a move that improves digital audio SQ any time soon. I think it has plateaued as a technology and any new gear seems to be more of the same as it were.

[Barry]

I know a number of folk who have returned to a simple CDP set up and actually prefer it to all the FBA, HiREZ, seperate DAC, seperate Clock, separate PSU set up.

I have compared the internal DAC of a Sony CDP with an external DAC (one by Stanley Beresford). I was able to switch between the two in real time.

There were differences in the soundstaging but neither was better overall; so for the sake of simplicity I kept with the internal DAC of the player.

[struth]

implementation, implementation, implementation.

[Macca]

implementation, implementation, implementation.

not just in the source components but in the rest of the system.

My early experience of CD (late 1980s) on a couple of systems was poor. (CD players from Technics and Marantz) Then heard a system using a Technics portable player - fantastic!

That puzzled me for a long time. Was there something special about that Technics portable player? But the answer was no, it was the systems the other players were hooked up to that were the cause of the poor sound. Yet they sounded good with a turntable (Linn Sondek and a Systemdek IIX). CD was just exposing their problems.

Lots of tail chasing in digital audio.

[struth]

not just in the source components but in the rest of the system.

My early experience of CD (late 1980s) on a couple of systems was poor. (CD players from Technics and Marantz) Then heard a system using a Technics portable player - fantastic!

That puzzled me for a long time. Was there something special about that Technics portable player? But the answer was no, it was the systems the other players were hooked up to that were the cause of the poor sound. Yet they sounded good with a turntable (Linn Sondek and a Systemdek IIX). CD was just exposing their problems.

Lots of tail chasing in digital audio.

indeed although dacs possibly more so. amazing how 2 dacs using same chips can sound so different, or 2 completely different dacs sound so alike

[Barry]

When CD players were introduced, many amplifiers at the time did not have a dedicated CD input - the 'aux' input was not able to cope with the higher output from the player.

[Macca]

When CD players were introduced, many amplifiers at the time did not have a dedicated CD input - the 'aux' input was not able to cope with the higher output from the player.

yes there were sometimes issues with gain and still can be. Anyone who has discovered that it is impossible to get an output level that is not too quiet or too loud from CD when their TT has no such issues knows that.

I'd also add some of the piss-poor but highly feted loudspeakers of that era being shown up, underdamped rooms not responding well to the high frequency output from CD (compared to cassette tape or vinyl). Also 'loudness wars' excessive limiting and compression on some CD masters.