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Thread: Why Cartridge set up is so important!

  1. #31
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Near Saffron Walden, Essex

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    I'm Dave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    as i said elsewhere dave, there is no point in trying to instil perfection on an imperfect 'analog' unit. you set it up competently then listen and adj if needed... thats all.
    Correct and don't sweat the small stuff.

  2. #32
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,240
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hifi_dave View Post
    Correct and don't sweat the small stuff.
    That’s only any good if the cartridge happens to fit the platter tonearm set up just right. Obviously making an arm that can’t be adjusted for VTA makes it cheaper to produce. Maybe that’s why SME also does not bother. I suppose a punter can always resort to shims if needed


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  3. #33
    Join Date: Sep 2019

    Location: North Lincolnshire

    Posts: 254
    I'm Lloyd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    put 2 slip covers on the deck and set it up for the thin record. when putting a thick one on, take one slip off
    Such brilliant thinking, thanks I’ll try the reverse , I’ll add a mat for the few really thin records I have that seem more like 120g vinyl to me
    A widower finding solace in music

  4. #34
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,850
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Of course you can set up VTA with any SME arm - it's just not as convenient as with some other makes.

    And it is impossible to do it 'on the fly'. Even with the SME M9-R and M12-R arms, which do have such an adjustment this is difficult to do.
    Barry

  5. #35
    Join Date: Mar 2022

    Location: brighton

    Posts: 104
    I'm jamie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hifi_dave View Post
    Correct and don't sweat the small stuff.
    i disagree,that might be fine with a conical stylus but with modern microline,shibata and Fritz Geiger profiles to get the best from them you do have to sweat the small stuff,its all about optimization. ortofons replicant 100 stylus profile works ok with the headshell level to the record but you are not getting the best from it, sra/vta has to be dialled in.

  6. #36
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,240
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Of course you can set up VTA with any SME arm - it's just not as convenient as with some other makes.

    And it is impossible to do it 'on the fly'. Even with the SME M9-R and M12-R arms, which do have such an adjustment this is difficult to do.
    I was meant azimuth on SME with all in one tone arm(no detachable headshell).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  7. #37
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,240
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    So following up on my post yesterday, this morning I decided to see if I could improve on SQ with the Micro Benz LP-S set up. What primarily lead me to do this was that yesterday having set up the Goldring 2500 and being pleased with the result I played a Quincy Jones record and it sounded great, however previously with the LP-S I had experience very sharp hi frequency transients which made me think there was a problem with the record. Now I was not so sure.

    First I examined the LP-S stylus using a USB digital microscope camera, even though I regularly clean it with a dry carbon fibre stylus brush it did look rather dirty. So following several guides I very carefully cleaned the stylus using a very small and soft brush using distilled water, I kept the brush away from the workings and kept the cantilever pointing downwards. I ended up with a very clean and new looking stylus viewing it with the USB microscope.

    Next I very carefully checked the position of the cartridge in the head shell using a small steel ruler, I ensured it was absolutely centred ( it was slightly off), and I checked the stylus overhang using a gauge I have. So my examination showed it was not quite perfectly mounted in on the head shell.

    I proceeded to mount the head shell in the arm, initially setting a neutral VTF(head shell parallel with record surface), then I checked and adjusted azimuth for accuracy, then VTF, I then took some time adjusting VTA/SRA so that I achieved a slightly raised arm at the pivot, I could visually see this using a gauge I have.

    I put on my two test listening tracks as before. I was immediately aware of more clarity, depth to the sound stage, and control and detail in bass note, this was very evident with the drums on the Ravi Shankar. With Eva Cassidy the most noticeable aspect was that there is virtually no sibilance now, and her voice sounds very pure and natural, that in the room experience , for want of a better description.

    To sum up I think I have proven to myself that ensuring that a cartridge is as well set up as possible is critical, and will give you great a better SQ result. I am not saying I have got it perfect but I have certainly got a worthwhile improvement not once but twice by being methodical, taking my time and checking set up criteria several times. From what I have read some types of stylus tips are more forgiving than others due to the way they sit in the groove. But my understanding is that a lot of todays modern stylus are not so forgiving, so getting it right becomes more important to get the most from one.

    I would advise anyone not quite happy with their record replay to take a look at their cartridge set up, there is lots of information available and some simple inexpensive tools help with the task greatly.
    I importantly omitted to say:-

    The Quincy Jones record now plays and sounds wonderful with the LP-S.

    So for me this really was proof that getting a cartridge optimally set up or as good as it can be on a tonearm/TT combo is so important!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  8. #38
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,850
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Think cartridge suspension rubber is usually optimised for 21 oC so if your playing a hot or cold room your buggered!
    It's more like 23degC, but temperature deviation only really effects the extreme top end (> 10KHz), but the difference can be as much as 1dB; which you will have difficulty hearing.
    Barry

  9. #39
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,850
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    I was meant azimuth on SME with all in one tone arm(no detachable headshell).
    You can still twist the headshell in the arm for azimuth adjustment, but you need to slacken the setscrew underneath the arm (near where it joins the headshell).
    Barry

  10. #40
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,850
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post
    I importantly omitted to say:-

    The Quincy Jones record now plays and sounds wonderful with the LP-S.

    So for me this really was proof that getting a cartridge optimally set up or as good as it can be on a tonearm/TT combo is so important!
    Glad to hear all the trouble was worthwhile. Now sit back, relax and enjoy the music!
    Barry

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