recapping Sony SS-G4 speakers

[sailor]

Hi Slim, recapping speakers, especially ones like yours that are 40+ years old will bring a definite improvement. Even if the caps are still in spec. replacing them with modern same value units will lift the performance.

There is more though that can be done than just the caps. Alan (Firebottle) mentioined the adhesive used to mount the components. If you replace anything use a mastic or silicone to mount them which will be better than the original hard goo used. The ubiquitous ceramic resistors should also be replaced while you are at it. Best bet here performance and pricewise are Mills but always use their 12W units not the 5W.

I would also replace the wiring and when doing this avoid any push-on connectors and solder everything. I recommend solid OCC Cu. 24/22AWG for tweeter, 18/16AWG for midrange and 14/12AWG for woofer. If you use solid, which to me sounds better than stranded, you will need to anchor the wire to something firm to prevent vibration from causing fatigue and possible failure. You can use cable tie anchors glued to the speaker magnet or staple the wire to the box or use silicone. The wire used makes a noticeable difference, in a good way

Upgrading a 3-way XO is more expensive because the lower XO point from woofer requires a fairly large cap. Will it be worth the expense and effort? Only you can decide, the cost will probably be more than the speakers are worth, however, a new bipolar cap for mid/woofer circuit would save money but use film caps for all others.

Will you notice an improvement? Most definitely. I have modded lots of speakers and the owners have always been impressed and enjoyed the 'new' sound.

[struth]

There is no "definite" about it.

[sailor]

Hi Grant, to me it is a definite improvement. There is nothing vague, nebulous or doubtful about what I'm hearing. Have you ever heard a before and after comparison when the XO is modified with the components I mentioned as I outlined above?

From your response to me, I think not.

I get these results even from modern speakers because if the manufacturer used the components I use it would be prohibitively expensive, but for just a pair of speakers it is worth doing.

For a pair of speakers over 40 years old the results will be immediately obvious.

And before someone asks how a capacitor or other component can 'improve' the sound, it can't! The better quality wire, caps etc.and correct orientation of the inductors help because of less editorialising and less injection of noise. Under those conditions, dynamics, details and overall musicality is the name of the game.

[Macca]

if electrolytic caps have drifted sufficiently from their rated values then there may be some benefit but replacing perfectly good caps with more expensive ones as though this will automatically improve sound quality is an extremely debatable subject and by no means set in stone.

Here's a measured comparison of the output from a set of speakers with the following capacitors substituted for stock:

Jantzen Audio Silver Z-cap 800V (as good as new, polypropylene film, see below for detailed description) - The capacity is 4.68µF

Ero MKC 160V (polycarbonate capacitor film, high age) - The capacity is 4.67µF

MD-MKP 400V (Date of manufacture 05.97, manufacturer is unknown to me) - The capacity is 4.67µF (with parallel 0.56µF Jantzen Audio MKP to reach the target capacity)

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...audible.12287/

As you can see there is no appreciable difference (less than 0.03dB) in the output of the loudspeaker.

I have some Akai speakers here that are 50 years old the electrolytics were still in tolerance when tested a couple of years ago.

Sometimes it may be worth doing and on some rubbish speakers its good practice since nothing can make them worse but with the o/p's Sony speakers - which are highly capable but just not rated since they are from back when Japanese kit was frowned on and people thought Epos ES14 or Linn Kan were cutting edge - I really would leave them alone unless they sound obviously 'off'

[struth]

Hi Grant, to me it is a definite improvement. There is nothing vague, nebulous or doubtful about what I'm hearing. Have you ever heard a before and after comparison when the XO is modified with the components I mentioned as I outlined above?

From your response to me, I think not.

I get these results even from modern speakers because if the manufacturer used the components I use it would be prohibitively expensive, but for just a pair of speakers it is worth doing.

For a pair of speakers over 40 years old the results will be immediately obvious.

And before someone asks how a capacitor or other component can 'improve' the sound, it can't! The better quality wire, caps etc.and correct orientation of the inductors help because of less editorialising and less injection of noise. Under those conditions, dynamics, details and overall musicality is the name of the game.

..as this is a subjective site you can say that as long as you add that its your opinion, not that its fact because you say so.

...and to answer your question, yes i have; if caps are decent quality and are ok then i wouldn't think anyone will notice much if any improvement. ..although you may think you do, which is fair enough but don't say its a fact.

[sailor]

You in fact did not answer the question which is : "Have you ever heard a before and after comparison when the XO is modified with the components I mentioned as I outlined above?"

Meaning using OCC Cu. better resistors, better capacitors and eliminating any push-on connectors made out of brass.

===========================================

Regarding Amir at ASR, that is a pretty pointless exercise. 0.03dB is insignificant and is not what I'm talking about. Did he mention listening to the difference? No, because that's not what he does as he claims he can tell what an amp or anything sounds like by looking at measurements.

I'm only interested in how it sounds. Take 2 caps that are the same value, one an MKP cheapie and the other a paper in oil and send a sine wave through them and check the O'scope or use ASR's expensive analyser and the waves will be, to all intents and purposes exactly the same. Do you think there might be a difference in sound when used in an amp or XO ??? I do.

[Macca]

You in fact did not answer the question which is : "Have you ever heard a before and after comparison when the XO is modified with the components I mentioned as I outlined above?"

Meaning using OCC Cu. better resistors, better capacitors and eliminating any push-on connectors made out of brass.

===========================================

Regarding Amir at ASR, that is a pretty pointless exercise. 0.03dB is insignificant and is not what I'm talking about. Did he mention listening to the difference? No, because that's not what he does as he claims he can tell what an amp or anything sounds like by looking at measurements.

I'm only interested in how it sounds. Take 2 caps that are the same value, one an MKP cheapie and the other a paper in oil and send a sine wave through them and check the O'scope or use ASR's expensive analyser and the waves will be, to all intents and purposes exactly the same. Do you think there might be a difference in sound when used in an amp or XO ??? I do.

I can't speak for Grant but when I was making speakers back in the early 90s I did experiment with using expensive caps and inductors in place of cheap ones. Yes I did hear differences, but on more than one occasion I thought the cheaper component was sounding better!

The problem really is that it takes so long to do the swap any memory of the subtle detail changes I assume we are talking about is lost. We think we recall but we don't.

That experiment I linked to was not done by Amir it was done by a member. I agree a controlled listening test would provide useful evidence one way or the other,

[Beobloke]

Have you ever heard a before and after comparison when the XO is modified with the components I mentioned as I outlined above?

From your response to me, I think not.

A work colleague of mine had some KEF Reference 4s and he took it into his head that they needed re-capping. I tried to talk him out of it as I knew the sort of components they used, but he wouldn't be dissuaded and went ahead and spent nearly £300 on components.

So, job done, he sat back to listen to his handiwork and told me how he nearly ended up in tears as his beautiful speakers sounded lacklustre, dull and completely disjointed. He fiddled with them for weeks but when he finally admitted he still had all the original components he'd removed, i lost patience and basically told him to "put the bloody things back in!".

He did in the end, and his lovely speakers were back.

The moral of the story is, firstly, don't assume that a blanket capacitor change will make an "improvement" and, secondly, loudspeaker designers do occasionally know what they're doing. Judicious re-capping once you'd proved things have gone adrift is highly beneficial. Blanket complete re-capping can cause more problems than it solves.

[Pigmy Pony]

Well said Adam. If it ain't broke...

[sailor]

Perhaps he shouldn't have used blanket capacitors, known to be warm and woolly.

I never said loudspeaker designers don't know what they're doing, though some of them appear that way. Apart from the flagship speakers, they all design to a budget to be competitive.

It is not the same stretch for an individual to use premium parts for a single pair but if producing 500 pairs then that is a different story.