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Thread: Record Cleaning (Ohhhh yes that old chestnut again)

  1. #1
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Chorley, Lancs

    Posts: 2,734
    I'm Mike.

    Default Record Cleaning (Ohhhh yes that old chestnut again)

    While i've always believed that any record cleaning process is better than non at all, i must admit that non in my humble opinion are perfect. Back in the 70's and 80's we used the velvet brush and that little bottle of liquid, it got the rough off but that was about it, no real deep cleaning.

    About 10 or so years ago i tried the PVA technique, it was ok and got a lot of ground in dirt out but was very messy and took ages to dry so you couldn't do a big batch, then i got a Knosti Disco Antistat which essentially is a manual fluid bath and brush technique, the problem here was the drying times again, and the fact that there wasn't a rinse tank although i've known people buy 2 units, 1 for wash and 1 for rinse, but essentially it's a manual process and it's a bit messy, although having said that for about £70 if you're on a tight budget it will give you good results in my opinion.

    After the Knosti i bought a Ultrasonic bath type cleaner, like most mine was a commercially available 6ltr bath with a motor and spindle assembly made to turn the records, the results are good I must say, however there isn't a dryer or a rinse bath, so dirt suspended in the cleaning fluid can and will stick, usually towards the centre of the record, so regular filtering of dirty cleaning liquid is necessary and there's 6lts of it so it can get expensive.

    A few days ago i saw a Project VC-S vacuum cleaning machine for a very reasonable price, so decided to get it, my idea being to carry out a 2 stage clean and dry, that should give the best of both worlds, by using the VC-S 1st, then rinsing in the ultrasonic tank filled only with distilled water, then a final vacuum dry my LP's should be as clean as possible, ok it isn't as simple as some of the very expensive machines, but the combined cleaning process should give me clean records every time and without having them sat drying and potentially attracting more dust.


    As the late Colonel Sanders once said
    "I'm too drunk to taste this chicken!!"

  2. #2
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,811
    I'm James.

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    You have recorded your history of record cleaning succinctly and it has detailed an ever increasing effective approach to cleaning those round bits of plastic. I too have been on this quest and could write pages on methodology, equipment and many cleaning liquid formulations but it would take pages.

    I always feel that whatever you do there is always another method/ piece of equipment that could be even more effective.

    Thanks for sharing your record cleaning history and good luck with the latest method!
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  3. #3
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Chorley, Lancs

    Posts: 2,734
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    No problem James, i'm keeping my fingers crossed. out of interest is there any cleaning fluid for the VC-S you would recommend, it came with a bottle of Project Wash It, so i'll give that a go but if there is a particularly good gleaning fluid for these type of brush / vacuum machines, then i'll get some.


    As the late Colonel Sanders once said
    "I'm too drunk to taste this chicken!!"

  4. #4
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,811
    I'm James.

    Default

    The project VC -S looks like a slightly more sophisticated version of the VPI 16.5 rcm machine I use and I am sure your have ample opportunity to experiment with various record cleaning fluid concoctions. To be honest Mike I think it is where you plunge down the rabbit hole as there are now 10 times as many available on the market than there were 5 years ago!

    Personally I use a very pure IPA solution with distilled water. 1/4 IPA to 3/4 water and sometimes a surfactant. However `I also do a number of washes and cleans with a final rinse of distilled water. The biggest problem as you know with any of these machines is their ability to introduce static via the brush/vacuum so I have now got this down to a minimum of just one revolution and then air dry.

    Obviously your vinyl has such a wide range of dirt/static and dust depending on age/storage/use etc so I find I approach each record as an individual project and vary my cleaning accordingly from a light touch clean to a full repeated cleaning session depending on the amount of dirt / static. I often find two cleans need to be implemented but when a record is just full of static maybe one and a light use of cleaning fluid.

    I know IPA is frowned upon by some in the audiophile community but it works for me and I have had no long term adverse side effects.

    I do sometimes do a deep clean with some L'Art Du Son cleaning fluid if I have a particularly old record which has never been cleaned before. Then launch into my usual process with IPA and water.

    I have tried loads of other solutions but many are much of a muchness although there are some new ones on the market that I have not tried yet.

    One day I would very much like to move to one of these machines in the link below but I will need to save a few pennies for this one!

    https://www.analogueseduction.net/re...g-machine.html
    Last edited by Jimbo; 25-08-2022 at 17:38.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  5. #5
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Chorley, Lancs

    Posts: 2,734
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post

    One day I would very much like to move to one of these machines in the link below but I will need to save a few pennies for this one!

    https://www.analogueseduction.net/re...g-machine.html
    Ha! me too


    As the late Colonel Sanders once said
    "I'm too drunk to taste this chicken!!"

  6. #6
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,269
    I'm Adrian.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    The project VC -S looks like a slightly more sophisticated version of the VPI 16.5 rcm machine I use and I am sure your have ample opportunity to experiment with various record cleaning fluid concoctions. To be honest Mike I think it is where you plunge down the rabbit hole as there are now 10 times as many available on the market than there were 5 years ago!

    Personally I use a very pure IPA solution with distilled water. 1/4 IPA to 3/4 water and sometimes a surfactant. However `I also do a number of washes and cleans with a final rinse of distilled water. The biggest problem as you know with any of these machines is their ability to introduce static via the brush/vacuum so I have now got this down to a minimum of just one revolution and then air dry.

    Obviously your vinyl has such a wide range of dirt/static and dust depending on age/storage/use etc so I find I approach each record as an individual project and vary my cleaning accordingly from a light touch clean to a full repeated cleaning session depending on the amount of dirt / static. I often find two cleans need to be implemented but when a record is just full of static maybe one and a light use of cleaning fluid.

    I know IPA is frowned upon by some in the audiophile community but it works for me and I have had no long term adverse side effects.

    I do sometimes do a deep clean with some L'Art Du Son cleaning fluid if I have a particularly old record which has never been cleaned before. Then launch into my usual process with IPA and water.

    I have tried loads of other solutions but many are much of a muchness although there are some new ones on the market that I have not tried yet.

    [/url]
    Much the same as me, I made my own rinse unit from and old TT and modified a wet/dry hoover using the small nozzle with a slit cut along its length, a hole for the TT spindle and luxury velvet cribbon glued to the nozzle to protect the record when vacuum drying. It works and I have got some pretty dirty records back to sounding excellent. It can be hit and miss a record that looks great can even after many clean still not sound too good, long term poor stylus abuse probably, or another can require many cleans probably due to heavy nicotine layer which is hard to remove.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  7. #7
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Chorley, Lancs

    Posts: 2,734
    I'm Mike.

    Default

    Yes it's that years old dried in crud that is hard to shift and is what the ultrasonic machine gets to grips with particularly well, but once off it can float around in the solution and stick back to the record when lifted out, that's where i think the vac will come into it's own, literally sucking all the loose crap off the disk


    As the late Colonel Sanders once said
    "I'm too drunk to taste this chicken!!"

  8. #8
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,811
    I'm James.

    Default

    Yes there is only so much crud liquid / wet cleaning vacuum machines can achieve. The trick with the ultrasonic machines is they create air bubbles of just the right size and intensity to dislodge dirt in the grooves and are therefore the ultimate RCM in my book. I know someone who has one and he gets dead silent records after a clean which are far quieter than a traditional can achieve.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 26-08-2022 at 07:10.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  9. #9
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,696
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default

    Have jumped in on this Kickstarter, be a good price for one if it comes off-

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...OS&FORM=OUTLSB

    Just the cleaner, not the TT.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  10. #10
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,811
    I'm James.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Tait View Post
    Have jumped in on this Kickstarter, be a good price for one if it comes off-

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...OS&FORM=OUTLSB

    Just the cleaner, not the TT.
    Looks good Ali.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

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