Bigbottle Audio BB3 valve rolling

[Ubi]

More Jfets?.

The BB3 hybrid phono really relies on the JFets in order to operate with MC as valves would be too noisy. So not really sure if your really hearing the Fets or the tubes?

I am actually thinking of going all SS for an alternative Phono stage which I think may happen very soon - I will keep you posted Obviously I will still use a tube preamp although again I think a buffered SS preamp could be on the cards some day. Definitely would not bother with a passive preamp.

I would really like to hear the differences between a SS vs Tube vs SS/tube phono and a SS passive vs SS buffered vs tube preamp and combinations of each of them to ascertain which sounds the best and to know where tubes really shine.

Following on from this I can only say in my opinion having an all tube phono and preamp the tubes in the phono make a huge difference but the tubes in the regulation stage less so. So a tube phono and SS preamp maybe the way to go? I don't know until I try.

Contact Oliver @Bigbottle. He had a buffer SS preamplifier and a SS phonostage and has Valve equipment too. He let me take my equipment over and listen to it and a Bigbottle 3. He was also very helpful when i bought a used Bigbottle 3. He is not far away from Birmingham.

[CageyH]

Thanks, so no JFETs involved in MM, so I am only “hearing” the difference (or not ) in the valves.
My ears are the wrong colour I think, skin tone rather than golden.

I have an EI ECC83 and Siemens PCC88s fitted, and it is still very good, possibly a tiny bit less good than a real TFK ECC83.

I think I am almost at a point where I am going to stop worrying, and just chuck something I like in there, and be done with it.

[Ubi]

Thanks, so no JFETs involved in MM, so I am only “hearing” the difference (or not ) in the valves.
My ears are the wrong colour I think, skin tone rather than golden.

I have an EI ECC83 and Siemens PCC88s fitted, and it is still very good, possibly a tiny bit less good than a real TFK ECC83.

I think I am almost at a point where I am going to stop worrying, and just chuck something I like in there, and be done with it.

Oliver said "MC Only" so the Jfets are not on if i understand it right. I also read on DIYAUDIO that the JFETs are not on in MM.

[Jimbo]

I would be interested to know if you are listening to the JFets or valves or probably both when in MC use and in which case are the JFets contributing more to the sound rather than the valves?

But if only using MM then I suppose the BB3 can be switched to work valve only?

I have a huge stock of valves here now after years of collecting and even now I am after more! They do certainly make a difference to the sound but I think not as huge as folk imagine. I recently had a huge bake off with 12BH7a valves in my line stage with about 8 different valves from RCA, Westinghouse, Brimar, GE, JJ, Electro Harmonix, Sylvania and Philips in my line stage and I got frustrated because I know not all of them were measuring full power and some were very old and some still almost new. Did my nut in as I did here strengths and weaknesses with all of them but I really only found one that seemed to tick nearly all the boxes.
Differences were small in many cases and I had to choose one I could live with day to day.

You would not have this problem with SS!

[CageyH]

I agree. The differences are small.
With the Siemens PCC88 fitted, I would struggle to tell which ECC83 was fitted at any one time.
They may be more pronounced with a MC cartridge fitted. I shall have to try.

[Ubi]

I would be interested to know if you are listening to the JFets or valves or probably both when in MC use and in which case are the JFets contributing more to the sound rather than the valves?

But if only using MM then I suppose the BB3 can be switched to work valve only?

I have a huge stock of valves here now after years of collecting and even now I am after more! They do certainly make a difference to the sound but I think not as huge as folk imagine. I recently had a huge bake off with 12BH7a valves in my line stage with about 8 different valves from RCA, Westinghouse, Brimar, GE, JJ, Electro Harmonix, Sylvania and Philips in my line stage and I got frustrated because I know not all of them were measuring full power and some were very old and some still almost new. Did my nut in as I did here strengths and weaknesses with all of them but I really only found one that seemed to tick nearly all the boxes.
Differences were small in many cases and I had to choose one I could live with day to day.

You would not have this problem with SS!

I asked, i think you can ask him directly as you know him - he said so.

"Hi Zander!

Busy today? lol

The JFET is being used as an amplifier. It is creating gain by amplifying the signal it receives from the MC cartridge. The JFET will be higher in SNR, lower in distortion and lower THD+N than any of the valves in the phonostage, and that means it's influence is far less than the valve stage itself. The amplified signal from the JFET (MM Signal level now for simplicity) is then fed into the rest of the circuitry which is responsible for RIAA equalisation and so-on.

Are you listening to the Jfet?

Well, Any device at the front end of a MC phonostage is effectively responsible for what the rest of the circuit sees, as it is adding gain. Be that via JFets, SUTs, Opamps etc, they all take 100% of the signal and amplify it BEFORE the phonostage circuitry gets it. Unless you use MM, there is simply no way to use a MC cartridge without some form of amplification device on the front end.

With Jfets and opamps, the effect of them is simple, the better they do their job, the less audible they become. An opamp with THD+N of 0.00024% is not going to have any negative effect on the THD+N figure you would get from a MM valve Phonostage, as that figure would likely swamp a quality Jfet or Opamp. My honest opinion is that the Jfet that we use for the BB3 is the 3rd most inaudible gain device we have heard, the 2nd being the JFET in the BBU (Higher grade JFET), and top of the pile is the Opamp we use in the Avalon Phonostage. IF anyone thinks the Jfet is more influential to sound than a valve, they would need to provide some never before seen measurements!

Have a look here:

https://www.vtadiy.com/home/tube-amp...be-comparison/

Oh, BTW....tell these "forum people" to email me. I don't bite! lol and say Hi from me.

Oliver"

[Jimbo]

I asked, i think you can ask him directly as you know him - he said so.

"Hi Zander!

Busy today? lol

The JFET is being used as an amplifier. It is creating gain by amplifying the signal it receives from the MC cartridge. The JFET will be higher in SNR, lower in distortion and lower THD+N than any of the valves in the phonostage, and that means it's influence is far less than the valve stage itself. The amplified signal from the JFET (MM Signal level now for simplicity) is then fed into the rest of the circuitry which is responsible for RIAA equalisation and so-on.

Are you listening to the Jfet?

Well, Any device at the front end of a MC phonostage is effectively responsible for what the rest of the circuit sees, as it is adding gain. Be that via JFets, SUTs, Opamps etc, they all take 100% of the signal and amplify it BEFORE the phonostage circuitry gets it. Unless you use MM, there is simply no way to use a MC cartridge without some form of amplification device on the front end.

With Jfets and opamps, the effect of them is simple, the better they do their job, the less audible they become. An opamp with THD+N of 0.00024% is not going to have any negative effect on the THD+N figure you would get from a MM valve Phonostage, as that figure would likely swamp a quality Jfet or Opamp. My honest opinion is that the Jfet that we use for the BB3 is the 3rd most inaudible gain device we have heard, the 2nd being the JFET in the BBU (Higher grade JFET), and top of the pile is the Opamp we use in the Avalon Phonostage. IF anyone thinks the Jfet is more influential to sound than a valve, they would need to provide some never before seen measurements!

Have a look here:

https://www.vtadiy.com/home/tube-amp...be-comparison/

Oh, BTW....tell these "forum people" to email me. I don't bite! lol and say Hi from me.

Oliver"

Hi Zander, I do know Oli. Thanks for passing on the info.

[Jimbo]

I agree. The differences are small.
With the Siemens PCC88 fitted, I would struggle to tell which ECC83 was fitted at any one time.
They may be more pronounced with a MC cartridge fitted. I shall have to try.

Maybe get someone to pop the different valves in for you and blind listen. Now that would be interesting?

[CageyH]

Oh, we know Oliver…

I was just interested to see if there were any sensibly priced ECC83 or PCC88 I may have overlooked.

[CageyH]

Maybe get someone to pop the different valves in for you and blind listen. Now that would be interesting?

Little chance of that happening.
The wife would probably forget to turn the BB3 off, or bend a pin as it won’t fit.