DAC upgrade

[struth]

first i remember was the calyx around 2012. but i admit i could be well out

[Lawrence001]

Interesting debate here from 2009

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/isnt...sb-dac.448655/

[Macca]

Yeah but I thought initially they didn't output digital the same as SACD due to copyright?

We're probably arguing over detail here but it would be useful to see a list of consumer DACs with years and specs if such a thing exists. I wasn't aware of 24/192 DACs until closer to 2010 but then I wasn't a hifi geek until about then. Think I got my first DAC then, an arcam delta 250/500 combo.

You could only get analogue out from them same as with SACD players. SACD got cracked with the PS3, I don't think anyone bothered with cracking DVD-A as it died a death pretty fast.

Anyways when I was talking about DAC technology I meant delta-sigma, R-2R, multibit, all of which are decades old tech. Higher sampling rates don't have any benefits for playback so are irrelevant unless you can only get the recording (or mastering) you want at the higher sampling rate.

From the point of view of audibility DACs were pretty much perfect from the late 1980s. Meausred performance has improved and you can now get very good measuring stand alone units very cheaply but a better spec on paper doesn't translate into better sound, the limitation for digital has long since been our hearing ability - and the recordings of course.

That's why i wouldn't recommend spending thousands on a DAC in the hope of getting an upgrade in SQ. My DAC is by far the cheapest component in my system.

I appreciate others have a different view on this, but that's mine FWIW.

[Pigmy Pony]

So does that mean there's no audible advantage to using an offboard DAC with your CD player over just using the player's own DAC? When recently using a separate DAC with my CD player (Marantz CD6006) I'm convinced I could hear some detail in the music which I'm sure I hadn't noticed before. Not light & day difference like a change of speakers, but perceptible to me. And my hearing is pretty crap.

[Macca]

So does that mean there's no audible advantage to using an offboard DAC with your CD player over just using the player's own DAC? When recently using a separate DAC with my CD player (Marantz CD6006) I'm convinced I could hear some detail in the music which I'm sure I hadn't noticed before. Not light & day difference like a change of speakers, but perceptible to me. And my hearing is pretty crap.

Some stand alone DACs are designed to have a 'sonic signature'. Also you must have heard details you have never noticed before even when nothing has changed in your system? I know I have.

[Pigmy Pony]

Some stand alone DACs are designed to have a 'sonic signature'. Also you must have heard details you have never noticed before even when nothing has changed in your system? I know I have.

Well I suppose that's possible. The only way to be sure would be a blind test. I'd be shit at one of them and wouldn't necessarily trust what I'm hearing, but if and when you ditch your slot loading transport, will you replace with a regular all in one player? Because you could do a blind test then. Or get Oli on the case - he has hearing like a bat apparently.

This is something potentially important for those of us financially challenged.

[Firebottle]

You and Mrs P were hearing the difference Steve, greater clarity for sure.

I don't agree with Martin that there are no differences, how the digital filtering is implemented in delta-sigma plus the audio output stages can all make a difference.

The digital conversion methods haven't changed but other things have like the two just mentioned.

[Lawrence001]

I forgot about the various filters available now they are subtle but can make a difference to fatigue or enjoyment.

Simplest example forgetting anything to do with the digital side would be if the DAC has a better output stage than the CD player. Seems like a lot of money to spend just for that, so maybe modding the output stage of a nice CDP is an option. Eg. lampizator!

[Vanzapp]

Certainly food for thought guys. Thanks.

[awkwardbydesign]

If the Brooklyn Mytek is on your radar, I compared one with the Benchmark DAC3 HGC and thought the Benchmark was more neutral. It also has an analogue pre and good headphone amp in it. The other one I really liked was the Audiobyte Black Dragon, but that definitely had its own sound, very "analogue" and valve like, IMO. And the Benchmark does so much more. It doesn't look very sexy, being aimed at the pro market, but the performance sold it to me.
So I bought the Benchmark.
By a strange coincidence I am selling it, not for a better sound, but I need to simplify my system so my wife can use it without confusion; CDP with a good internal DAC, and integrated amp with internal phono board. I had to pay a lot to keep the quality, so bought Accuphase. Even then, the DAC has colouration, but of a kind I enjoy.