The Ortofon 2M Black experiment

[Wakefield Turntables]

This post was partly inspired by a very kind loan from Jimbo (Jim) of a Ortofon 2M Black MM cartridge and partly to try and generate a little new content for the forum. I'd been slowly, slowly building a "REAL SOUND" system, based on the findings and experiment of Jeff Day over on his Jeffs Place webpage. Jeff's system had been partly based around Duelund components and how some of the Japanese Audiophiles had gone nuts over old Western Electric tinned copper for interconnects and speaker cables. I emulated Jeffs idea with a modest system of my own and I intended the system to be something of a review system for old/interesting vintage/new MM carts. An idea for an experiment occured one evening and put simply both myself and Jim had to review the Ortofon 2M Black using a wide variety of music and then swap our reviewing notes to see what we both thought. This experiment was completely for fun, no ulterior motives. We had no time limit and neither of us had any idea of what music was being reviewed by the other. You have to remember that neither of us had any idea what the other was doing or reviewing, we also used two completely different systems. Here are my findinds, I'm sure Jim will be along shortly to further add to our experiment. Please, read, comment and lets start a fun thread...

I make no apologies for spelling or grammatical error.


SYSTEM

Radford SC25 Pre-amp (MULLARD 8317 fully loaded)
Italian no-name 300B amp - That's as much as I know about it's origin!
EAR 834P (Clone) - Modded to the hind-teeth and fully loaded with Mullard 8317's)
Heybrook TT2 + Alphason Solo Arm + Ortofon 2M Black cartridge
IMF Supercompact II speakers - Fully rebuilt and refurbished by myself
Wiring - All IC's, tonearm cables, speaker cables - DUELUND "REAL SOUND" Western Electric copy.


The Heybrook TT2 had been slightly modded with a Isokinetik PSU, the 2MB cartridge had approx 800 hours on it. The TT2 was running at a steady
33.5 rpm with an old belt.



Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner - Iron Maiden - Original pressing.

Why ? - A comparison old tecnnology mated with new pitched up against of the very best currently available MM's.
- Can the 2MB do Heavy Metal


The M55E presented an anaemic sounding set of vocals. I'm used to hearing a certain amount of snarl in Dickinson's vocals, it was there just not
as much as I'm used to. Vocally, Dickinson was central, but far away and recessed, usually you get him more intimate and a little more in your face. Bass was another problem, muted, punitive, lacking punch and power, just no authority. Nicko McBrain's drumming sounded reasonably well controlled but bass drum was lacking in presentation, cymbals sounded wishy-washy, a confused presentation which sadly was muted and recessed into the background. It's usually very easy to pick out each drum in his kit, Bass, snare, toms, cymbals, not so with the M55E. The M55E was unusually good with surface noise which is something the 2MB couldn't beat. The M55E was optimised with the EAR834 clone phonostage

Let's strap the 2MB back into place.

Less anaemia to vocals which whilst sounded centralised also sounded like him singing in a confined box. The 2MB managed a far more realistic
protrayal of the vocals with powerful output and a well centralised vocal presentation, snarl was restored! The bass on the 2MB compared to the M55E is somthing else. It's probably better to described what the 2MB did because the M55E could not replicate it. Bass was very well controlled, well defined, there is a section where you are simply bathed in bass as it panned from left to right and back again, this extended out forwards of the speakers not quite touching me but definitely a weird 3D holographic feeling. The M55E got nowhere near!! One small section of the song in some rainfall, it was heard quite meekly like a drizzle with the M55e but it sounded like a down pour with the 2MB. Drums became a joy to listen with the ability to easily determine individual pieces of McBrain's kit. The big downside to the 2MB is surface noise. The "Black" range of carts excel on surface noise and this no matter how hard or carefully you set the "black" range of carts, even with the use of a test record and a Fozgo meter!!!

Conclusion - A bit unfair really, a but like putting Del Boy's Robin Reliant up against a Bugatti Veyron SuperSport. Secondly, the 2MB can really,
really do heavy metal, probably better than a lot of MC's.


Why? - Can the 2MB do prog?
- Can the 2MB do percussion?
- Can the 2MB do Intimate male vocals?

The ELP album is one of my favourites and at the same time enabled me to listen to various aspects of the 2MB's abilities. This album has many
parts where note decay is allowed to progress for quite some time, we have some accoustic guitars and piano, note pitch stability was spot on,
decay of the note seemed to last forever in the ether. Carl Palmer's percussion was fast, pacy, precise, crisp, it's as good as I've heard on
any other album. Greg Lakes vocals where spot central in the soundstage, textured and dripping with echo/decay, again very impressive


J.S.Bach - Tocatto and Fugue in D Minor - Karl Ritcher.
Why? - Can the 2MB do really deep bass?

I have only one recording which could test this and it's a classical piece recorded on Readers Digest vinyl! Carl Richter played Bach organ
tocatta and fugue in B minor, this goes as deep as anything I own on vinyl and I'm pleased to say that the 2MB really can do deep bass, again
I think this carts fortee is bass, no matter what type of bass I've tried it's proven to be this carts party trick. Bass on this track can sound
very bloated but the 2MB managed to control this very well indeed. I'm not going to hear Albert Hall levels of deep organ bass reproduction
within the confines of my medium sized listening room more like a small village chapel with the local organ player being allowed to play at full
blast with the doors shut. Great levels of bass in my room, enough to mimic something much larger. Bass was never bloated, just poewerful, deep
and majestic.

Conclusion - Yep, it can plumb very deep indeed.



Kraftwerk - Autobahn
Prodigy - Music for the Jilted Generation
Jean Michelle Jarre - Oxygen

Why? - Can the 2MB do electronica?

Bouyed on by the 2MB's ability to do prog very well I decided to try something a little more specialised. It was time for electronica.
Electronica just didn't sound as sterile as I'm used to. The 2MB did a great job in playing the music, producing a massive wide soundstage, everything had a place with space in the soundstage but that metronic, sterility that I enjoy when listening to this music was missing. The ability to produce a nice sharp edge to every note was lost with the 2MB when trying to transribe electronica, this happened time and again with no matter what I listened to. I've heard electronica being described as metronomic, I'd agree but on this system it was fair to say that Electronica just wasn't electronic enough. I just didn't emotionally click with any on the electronica played on this system. That's not to say that the 2MB can't do electronica well, it just didnot happen on my system. Strangely the 2MB did a reasonably good job of playing Oxygen, wide panoramic vista's, quite etheral in some places, probably the best piece of electronica, this piece is less demanding than the others I tried and may explain why the 2MB fared better?

Conclusion - The 2MB just couldn't raise enough volts!

Michael Jackson - Off The Wall - Epic
Earth Wind & Fire - Raise - CBS
Chic - Tres Chic

Why? - Can the 2MB Boogie with Disco?

Spurred on by the complete flop of advanced electronica I thought I'd try a slightly leftfield choice for my next genre. I decided 70's disco/
funk. I figured I should be in for a treat with the 2MB's cavernous ability to produce bass. I wasn't let down. The bass on Off the Wall by Jackson
was simply sublime, fast, tight, centralised, the bedrock of the soundstage, Drums were fast, snappy, snare was sharp. Synth's, weirdly, sounded
so much better than the electronica I tested. I still have no idea why this can be. Guitar was sharp. The whole soundstage again, wide, and filling
the width of my listening room. The Quincy Jones production was amazing. The Earth Wind & Fire album demonstrated a very similar presentation but this time we had hand claps which sounded like hand claps! Brass stabs which sounded smooth, tight, mmmmm, probably the next area I need to explore, let's see what brass I can find. Finally, the Guv'nors of 70's disco bass and guitar needed to be played and assessed, CHIC BABY! Nile Rodgers andBernard Edwards please make your way to the centre of the soundstage. Bass on the Le Freak track just burbles along, controlled, meaty, centralised, powerful, absolute rock steady. Guitar sounded fresh and accurate and when placed with Bernard Edwards just made the whole thing. I think I can say that emotionally I clicked with this aspect of the 2MB.

Conclusion - Can the 2MB boogie? Err yeah is the simple answer, and very well, in fact it has the biggest medallion, hairiest chest and
widest flares this side of Studio 54.



Comus - First Utterance - Song to Comus
Michael Newman - Classical Guitarist - Chaconne
Leo Keotke - Songs for 6 and 12 string guiatrs - Classic Records 200g

Why? Assess 6-12 string accoustic guitars

The 6 string did sound rather muddied on this track but strangely the 12 string sound vibrant, oodles of timbral decay, very precise straight edged
notes. I wasn't quite sure what to make of this test so I decided to try another couple of albums. This is a direct to disc recording and very imtimate it also majors in timbral detail and nuance. The 2MB did indeed appear to fair better with this recording. I was rewarded with a very imtimate and timbre loaded performance, small details like the strings squeaking, actually being able to hear strings being plucked. The final record was the Classic Records version of the famous Leo Keotke record. The 2MB produced a very similar performance to the Michael Newman recording, the Leo Keotke recording sounded even more vibrant with more energy, greater insight into the timbre, notes seemed to be sustained forever, decay, reverb, echo, all easily detected with this recording. Keotke again sounded centre stage but also way beyound the speakers.

Conclusion - The 2MB can easily replicate accoustic guitars with great vibrancy, energy, and timbral detail. Very good at putting the man on a chair in the middle of the room.


Peggy Lee - Black Coffee - Black Coffee (MONO) - Ace of Hearts.
Cal Tjader - Sessions - S'Wonderful (Chris Conner singing)
Love Walked in (Chris Conner Singing)

Why? -To assess close imtimate female vocals

Both of these recordings are amazing recordings. The Cal Tjader being a live recording whilst the Peggy Lee is studio based. The Black Coffee recording is an excellent example of just how good mono can sound and the 2MB does an amazing job of placing Peggy Lee in front of me. Every single word drips out of this woman's mouth, it's as if time slows when listening to how she articulates her words, they only thing giving it away is the in time drumming. She oozes sex, the eptiomy of sultry where every word is pronounced with crystal clarity. The Sessions album by Cal Tjader has two amazing tracks recorded on size 2 by Chris Connor, this lady is no Peggy Lee but she has plenty of emotion living in her pipes. Both tracks performed by Chris Conner show even more intimacy than the Peggy Lee track, these are very imtimate live performances where you feel very much part of performance. Superb stuff.

Conclusion - The 2MB can easily portray imtimate female vocals and manages to transcribe all the emotion of a close mic'd performance.



Janos Starker - Bach Cello Suites

Why? - Any good at replicating a man sitting in front of you with a Cello?

Live vibrant with cello, lost some detail and vibrancy when compared to SPU Silver Meister II.Plenty of Timbral detail.
Could easily hear fingers on the fret board of the Cello

Conclusion - Good at producing live closely miked performance. Lost some intimicy compared to other cartridges that I have tried.


Deep Purple - Made in Japan Box Set Sweet Child in Time

Why? - Anguish of a man screaming, fret fireworks, intricate control of high guitar treble.

Fireworks, fireworks, fireworks.
Bass drum thumb, echo and decay central soundstage.
Very well controlled high treble despite trying to test it's stridancy with Richard Blackmore solo's.
Visceral, banshee wails.


Conclusion = It can do well controlled high treble. Instrument placement generally very good, this recording can sound a little muddled as it did
here. Overall, impressed considering I'm using aural memory and my notes of how this sounds against a Ortofon Cadenza Black + FG stylus.
Not the last word in emotional bonding but I could detect the anguish in Ian Gillan's vocals. So I guess, test passed, just.
Limitations of the SC II's?


Dream Theatre - Dark Eternal Night

Why? - Killer bass drums, clarity of treble, ability to discern embedded micro detail. Ability to protray a machine gun of notes.

Tried really to produce some of the microdetail that sits in the back ground. Not the last detail but bloody good!
Fast, dynamic, agile, bass like a speeding, uncontrolled juggernaut. Just fast, slamming, dirty bass.
Intricately picked through the notes, just like a machine gun of notes being fired central soundstage.
Real, emotionally bonded with this track, chest thumbing, piloerection, yep, loved this one.


Dream Theater - Lost Not Forgotten
Why? - Extreme test of transcription of densely packed, extremely complex passage of music.
- Pitch control of piano.

Lost but not Forgotten has been a reference track of mine for years it's tests a cartridge ability to disect and place layers and music notes
in a 3D soundstage. So far, every cartridge has failed and this track has just sounded muddied, blurred and too overly complex, this could just be
a facet of the track itself and nothing to do with the cartridges abilities. I'm sorry to say the 2MB fell flat on it's arse, but, even a Ortofon
Cadenza Black + FG stylus can fluff this track. A very brave attempt but I think the 2MB reached it's limits here. This track is in another league
of complexity when compared to Dark Eternal Night. Pitch control was very good. I must admit to being sensitive to this area of vinyl reproduction.
My Heybrook TT2 runs consistantly at 33.5rpm so I could argue my TT was at fault here rather than the 2MB.

Conclusion - The 2MB fell flat on it's arse with extremely complex passages of music, it did however produce very good note stability when listening
to passages of piano/keyboard music.



PROS CONS

Amazing with any bass. Surface noise
A good emotionally transcriber. Can be difficult to set up.
Easily handles complex musical passages. Expensive replacement stylii.
Very good note pitch stability Brutal, exposes poor recordings
Exceptional when given excellent recordings Electronica just wasn't electronic enough
Vivid. Not so good with extremely complex passages of music
Huge, wide, vista of a soundstage.
3D & Holographic



FINAL NOTE

I went through these notes again and I will state that I'm slightly biased in that I'm comparing a cobbled together system up against my reference
system which amongst other things comprises of a SME V with a Ortofon Cadenza Black + FG stylus and Active ATC 50 speakers. I admit, hardly a faircomparison. But then it says something when I compare the 2MB up against a cartridge and system costing many more thousands than the one it's been reviewed in.

[brian2957]

Very thorough investigation on what the 2M Black can, and can't do Andrew. You don't do things by half measures do you mate

James was kind enough to loan me his 2M Black last year and I really enjoyed it. It certainly does a lot of things right.

I will have to re-read your post in the morning because there's so much in it. Thanks for taking the time to post it

[Wakefield Turntables]

Jim has to add his half as well. I've we've just about covered every facet of the 2MB

[stonehenge]

I found much the same when I use a Black. All I can say is that it sounds better in its own pnp headshell.

[Jimbo]

Very thorough write up there Andy with your experience using the 2M Black and an interesting read. As you know I am a superfan of the 2M black as it has been the best all round cartridge I have heard in my system. I have made comparisons in the past with many many cartridges both MM and MC both in my system and other systems and the 2M for me just ticks all the right boxes. I guess I am lucky in that the system I put together some time back with a bit of tweaking has a great synergistic effect with the 2M. If I wanted to drill down into detail I expect correct capacitance loading, the use of valve amps and suitable valve selection, tone arm/ turntable and speakers have all been chosen to suit this cartridge. The tail that wags the dog!

So to my listening experiences using the 2M Black. I have not chosen to go down the exact same route as Andy by comparing it against other cartridges, I have written about this in many other posts here on AOS but I have put together some thoughts and observations listening to the 2M very closely over the last few weeks after we discussed this post.


So I kicked off the listening experience with a fabulous piece of jazz from one of the greats who died soon after he finished this last recording. It is very simply miked and only consists of the Duke on the piano and Ray Brown on double bass.

Jazz Duke Ellington - This ones for Blanton.

Double bass and Piano.

The 2M produces a full double bass sound with all the correct weight and tone and vibrating leading edge of the plucked strings. Very fat sound, meaty and natural. Meanwhile the piano has all the immediacy and impact of piano keys being struck . Loads of weight and decay in the notes. When hit hard the notes fly through the air sharp and impactful.
Very good on both accounts.


Next up one of the greatest harpists playing today in duet with one of greatest Kora players. Sublime music and a demonstration of wether the 2M can reproduce natural complex stringed instruments and unravel who is doing what?


Catrin Finch - Album Soar. Harp and Kora

This is a very natural simple recording fairly close miked with wide range of notes from very deep to very high. The 2M Black allowed the Harp to shimmer. Bass notes similar to Double bass on jazz album full, vibrant and very deep. Top end very quick and immediate with every note executed with all the natural decay. This was intermingled with the Kora but the two instruments although sounding complex could be individually picked out. The 2M showed amazing precision and natural tone of these instruments. I have heard this with other cartridges and they have blurred the strings and instruments together somewhat. Not the 2M.


Electronic album VCMG ssss. Track Recycle.

This is an amazing recording with Vice Clarke and Martin Gore.
Massive Bass with huge power and impact. The 2M Black totally controls the electronic bass and produces an eye popping huge sound in the room. Visceral and massively dynamic. If you ever think the 2M Black sounds lean this track completely disproves this. Chest thumping, huge, direct and palpable. Massive power and control. Lesser cartridges may not even track this and could end up jumping out the groove. There is another track called Bendy Bass that would certainly do this. Not for the faint hearted but shows the strength of the 2M Blacks tracking ability.

Michael Hedges - Live on the double planet.

This is why I live with the 2M Black, it allows these recordings to sound completely live and captures all the ambience and dimensionality of the recording venues. Close your eyes and you are there. Truly extraordinary. Very transparent. You are at the edge of the stage.
Hedges voice sound like it is at the back of the soundstage and the reflections of the acoustic are all captured stunningly. Listen to this album and it will tell you all the 2M can do. This is what recorded music should do but so often doesn’t.


Aldous Harding _ Warm Chris - Track Warm Chris.

Acoustic guitar and vocals with background electric guitar.

This is a great recording but what the 2M does and again this is one of its greatest strengths, it creates a hologram of the singer there in front of you. Very spookily present in the room 3D, natural and totally believable. Her guitar is slightly recessed and the accompanying guitar sounds way back in the mix.
The 2M really does such an amazing job with the vocals on this track it reminds you why you got interested in HIFI in the first place. Inky black background and totally natural presentation. WOW.

I will add further thoughts and impressions in the near future. However jumping around various genres and extremes the 2M delivers and often exceeds expectation. There are many many pros to this cartridge but it does have cons. It is not perfect and is not infallible.

CONS

1. It needs to be set up correctly - I think this has been spoken about numerous times on numerous post so i will not go into this aspect here.
2. It needs to be partnered with the right gear to get it to sound its best but is this not true of all equipment and cartridges?
3. Surface noise and its ability to find every scratch and piece of dirt and dust can be a problem for some. It is a ruthless detailed cartridge and if its there in the grooves it will find it?

PROs

1. This cartridge will give you a tremendous amount of information packed into those black grooves. It is highly detailed and has massive resolution. It will make many other cartridges sound tame and lacking in detail.
2. Tracking ability is exemplary, I have never been able to trip it up even with extreme cut 45 RPM bass.
3. The 2M Black has for me one unique ability in that it takes any recording and somehow manages to make it sound live. You are not looking at a photo, you are in the photo.
4. All the parameters we measure our listening experience by are produced stunningly by the 2M Black. Soundstage both width and depth, Dynamic range and ability, transparency, natural acoustic, detail, resolution and connection to the music and performer. This cartridge really does produce 3D images and those images are very well controlled each in its own part of the recording. Not only is the whole soundstage captured and exposed extremely well you can pick out all the parts of the recording/ instruments etc set in that soundstage.
5. Vocals have a breathtaking naturalness and ear popping realism. On great recordings they can be reproduced right there in front of you almost like the person has entered the room.

As I have mentioned I am a superfan of the 2M black and have put together a system around it to bring out its best so it is probably not a surprise to many to read my findings. What maybe more interesting is that Andy has cobbled together a system and also heard some of its great stengths and I respect Andy has heard and owned a fair bit more kit than me and is probably even more thorough in his evaluation of equipment.

The 2M black Andy is using probably has 830 hours on it now where as my listening session was conducted with a 1000+ hour cartridge.

I have lent this cartridge to a few careful trusted folk on AOS and I would consider others maybe to get further input and balanced impressions for this thread.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Two different people, two different systems, very different gear, very similar findings. Interesting experiment!!

[Jimbo]

Two different people, two different systems, very different gear, very similar findings. Interesting experiment!!

Yes indeed Andy. I did quantify my listening experience by mentioning that my system was built around the 2M Black where as yours was put together as you said to review MM cartridges in general.

The Interesting thing was that we both had similar findings. I know from reading on here and other forums this has not always been the case. I can imagine this maybe the result of incorrect or poor set up or mis match of equipment or simply the 2M Black is not always to everyones taste which I completely understand.

Maybe we are both like the same sort of sound?

[Firebottle]

[QUOTE=Wakefield Turntables;1330137]
SYSTEM

Radford SC25 Pre-amp (MULLARD 8317 fully loaded)
Italian no-name 300B amp - That's as much as I know about it's origin!
EAR 834P (Clone) - Modded to the hind-teeth and fully loaded with Mullard 8317's)

Interesting to me that I have had a hand in modifying all the above equipment so I think i could say I have a good handle on what performance can be achieved. The Radford in particular benefited a lot from the repositioning of the volume control in the circuit flow.

Dream Theater - Lost Not Forgotten

So far, every cartridge has failed and this track has just sounded muddied, blurred and too overly complex, this could just be
a facet of the track itself and nothing to do with the cartridges abilities. I'm sorry to say the 2MB fell flat on it's arse, but, even a Ortofon
Cadenza Black + FG stylus can fluff this track. A very brave attempt but I think the 2MB reached it's limits here.

Conclusion - The 2MB fell flat on it's arse with extremely complex passages of music, it did however produce very good note stability when listening
to passages of piano/keyboard music.

Following on from my comments above, if you were also trying the Cadenza Black through the EAR 834P I think the restriction to transparency could be the EAR. With 'simple' valve stage design complex music can become muddy due to insufficient linearity. One particular very expensive phono stage comes to mind as failing abysmally in this regard. I think we need to test your killer track with my Bigbottle Ultime phono stage.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Would could have a similar "ear" for music, we could percieve or analyse in the same way, perhaps this could explain similar results. In all complete honesty my system was just literally thrown together from boxes I had sitting around, the cabling was a complete loom of Duelund tinned copper. It's virtually impossible to incorrectly set you pre, power, phonostage up with IC's, so I would suggest incorrect TT setup. I know you've set your TT up properly, I went to the trouble of impedence matching and checking cartridge and tonearm resonance, cartridge alignment was done with Dr. Feickhart, so I think my TT was ok. It's hard to explain. My TT was 0.2rpm fast, how accurate is the speed control on your VPI, or did you use the Lenco? We spoke about being sensitive to certain aspects of soundstage presentation, mine being pitch stability, maybe something along those lines?

[Jimbo]

I used the VPI turntable and set up speed using Dr Fieckert speed platter app so turntable was running within 1% accuracy. I think your choice of valve equipment certainly was good and probably contributed to the great experience you had with the 2M Black.

According to FB you really need one of his Bigbottle Ultimate phono stages in your system to sort out the 2M Black in complex passages?