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Thread: Can a nearfield listening position ever be too realistic?

  1. #41
    Join Date: Jun 2015

    Location: London/Durham

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    I'm Lawrence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bumpy View Post
    Have a good set of closed back headphones, so will give that a try I will try a track that seems a bit too up front on my system to see if it’s on the track or not. If it’s not then that’s a target, which is good. Being a scientist I love this type of challenge.
    What are they? I've found most are brighter/more detailed than speakers. HD650s, Audioquest Nighthawks and Audeze LCDs (moreso pre fazor) being some that are not.

  2. #42
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

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    I'm Dennis.

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    I've never felt that in my current listening room I have had any trouble with early reflection smearing things; maybe I'm just cloth eared, but my HI-Fi friend thinks my room is excellent. I have only damped reflective corners with curtains, but many now are using numerous things on walls.

    Headphones are so different in presentation that comparisons with speakers in rooms has to be careful; only certain things can be validated with them IMO.

  3. #43
    Join Date: Dec 2017

    Location: limerick

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    I'm charles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    just bear in mind that headphones have their own set of colourations.

    If you assume that the problem is not the recording then you'll be right ninety-nine times out of a hundred.


    Martin, I need to make a correction. I have not played with this stuff for a while. I mentioned Welti and Todd when in fact the man's name is Todd Welti.

    https://www.aes.org/member/profile.cfm?ID=682293182
    https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=15044

    The second post is the reason I have advised against using the Bonello Criteria.

    I am very curious: Which of the experts I mentioned disagree and what is the disagreement about? I know that Welti on the subject of a distributed bass array (DBA) recommends a systematic approach while Earl Geddes favours random placement with at least one sub in a corner, any corner. This is just one method that differs but achieves the same result. I recommend you call up one of Ethan Winer's YouTube videos. Very informative and easy for you to understand.

    The headphones were mentioned for one reason which has nothing to do with colourations but as mentioned to simply and effectively remove the room's strong effect on what is heard. Surely you can understand that, failing which the OP would have to book an appointment for an anechoic chamber and at great expense and upheaval cart the system off to hear the effect of removing those pesky room acoustics.

    Chris, interested in your findings when using the 'phones.

  4. #44
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 5,305
    I'm James.

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    Hey Charles, this is how it should be done. But to do it properly as my friend has in the link below takes a lot of time and a huge amount of money.

    Have a look through this detailed blog and you can maybe pick out the relevant bits that you think could maybe work for you but I have heard the finished result and it is very impressive to say the least.....

    The blog starts with "Building a music room"

    http://sonoritydesign.co.uk/index.php/blogs/
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  5. #45
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Bishops Stortford

    Posts: 1,174
    I'm Chris.

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    I have HD 650s so should be OK.
    Am on holiday at present so will get on this next week. 👌
    With ‘in my face albums’ I lose interest in the music after about an hour, so will be interesting to compare this response on headphones.

  6. #46
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 34,306
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sailor View Post
    Martin, I need to make a correction. I have not played with this stuff for a while. I mentioned Welti and Todd when in fact the man's name is Todd Welti.

    https://www.aes.org/member/profile.cfm?ID=682293182
    https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=15044

    The second post is the reason I have advised against using the Bonello Criteria.

    I am very curious: Which of the experts I mentioned disagree and what is the disagreement about? I know that Welti on the subject of a distributed bass array (DBA) recommends a systematic approach while Earl Geddes favours random placement with at least one sub in a corner, any corner. This is just one method that differs but achieves the same result. I recommend you call up one of Ethan Winer's YouTube videos. Very informative and easy for you to understand.

    The headphones were mentioned for one reason which has nothing to do with colourations but as mentioned to simply and effectively remove the room's strong effect on what is heard. Surely you can understand that, failing which the OP would have to book an appointment for an anechoic chamber and at great expense and upheaval cart the system off to hear the effect of removing those pesky room acoustics.
    .
    headphones will simply substitute one set of issues for another, they are not remotely the equivalent of listening in an anechoic chamber.

    Far more effective would be to employ quilts, cushions, pillows to see of the problem can be solved/reduced that way before actually paying for proper treatments. We don't actually know if this is a room issue or a system issue, that could at least be ascertained that way with minimal fuss and no expense. Everyone has cushions and pillows.

    I watched a lot of Ethan Wieners videos about ten years ago. They are useful but you have to bear in mind he is in the business of selling treatment and his general thrust is 'The more the better' which is not necessarily the case although some may prefer that/ it may work well in some rooms with some speaker systems.

    Regarding diffusers I'd refer you to Toole's 'Sound Reproduction' (3rd edition pg 170) where he concludes 'It continues to be a topic for more research in the present context.'

    Since the loudspeaker, the room (both shape and construction) and the listener's taste are all variables a blanket recommendation is never possible. If it were then there would be no such thing as acoustic consultants. Hence I recommend individual experimentation. Of course Chris is free to disregard that suggestion.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Audiolab 6000CDT* Soncoz SGD-1 * Nelson Pass DCB1 * Krell KSA50s * JM Lab Electra 926 *

  7. #47
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Bishops Stortford

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    I'm Chris.

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    I am taking in all info - nothing is discarded without good reason.
    I am ‘lucky’ in having an additional method of judging audio. I have tinnitus in one ear from years of riding a noisy Harley. Most of the time I happily ignore it and it retreats into insignificance. If however the hi fi is not right then it triggers the tinnitus.

  8. #48
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 34,306
    I'm Martin.

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    I sympathise, I have some in my left ear, not that bad though but it does vary. In my case Eric Clapton at the Manchester Apollo. 1986. My ears rang for three days.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Audiolab 6000CDT* Soncoz SGD-1 * Nelson Pass DCB1 * Krell KSA50s * JM Lab Electra 926 *

  9. #49
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 89,942
    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I sympathise, I have some in my left ear, not that bad though but it does vary. In my case Eric Clapton at the Manchester Apollo. 1986. My ears rang for three days.
    working accident did for mine; both ears. took me a good few years to get used to it. it doesnt bother me much now but its there; like most things, you get used to it and adapt.
    Regards,
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  10. #50
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Bishops Stortford

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    I'm Chris.

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    Just a mention to those that may not have not noticed, that I use open baffle speakers and I guess much of the text book stuff is most relevant to box speakers.

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