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Thread: Can a nearfield listening position ever be too realistic?

  1. #51
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 34,306
    I'm Martin.

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    No, the principles of how sound behaves in a room are the same, even box speakers can vary significantly in how they distribute the sound. The loudspeaker is always a variable.

    The proper way to do this is to begin by measuring and see what is happening. But there's a learning curve to that. Failing that, experimentation is the next best thing.

    personally I've just addressed a few obvious problems, bounce from the corners. I did have a large pot plant in one corner which I got rid of without thinking of the consequences. Immediately began to notice the reflections from that corner. A potted plant will act as both absorber and diffuser. I replaced it with a large roll of loft insulation, problem solved. In the other corner where the door is, same problem, solved with some absorption panels on the door itself.

    Just basic, common-sense solutions.

    I am intending to replace the loft insulation with another plant, purely for aesthetics, but not got around to that. It's very surprising how effective a plant is.

    Suspect by measuring and doing a proper implementation I could improve the sound somewhat further but it's not a trivial task. It already sounds good and with the corner reflections tamed there is no longer anything about the sound that irritates, which is good enough for me.

    All rooms are going to be compromised to some extent unless they are built from scratch for the specific purpose of audio replay.
    Current Lash Up:

    *Audiolab 6000CDT* Soncoz SGD-1 * Nelson Pass DCB1 * Krell KSA50s * JM Lab Electra 926 *

  2. #52
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 5,305
    I'm James.

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    Room acoustics and their influence on your system is huge but most folk tend to ignore this due to aesthetic considerations or time and cost. However when you consider how often some folk swap their equipment searching for that ideal sound and the cost involved it is crazy not to try and do at least a little to resolve room issues. Indeed I have done a fair bit with just furnishings which have improved the acoustics of my room and more importantly my system no end and at zero cost!

    In fact they have been so significant I have often wondered how much effort and expense I would have to have gone too to change equipment and speakers to suit? Now you could always go down the DSP room/ system acoustic correction which uses algorithms to analyse room acoustics and then apply digital generated correction. However with all DSP I have never been that convinced as it seems to throttle the performance of your system especially speakers and you end up thinking where has all the Bass gone from my large floor standers, I bought these speakers because I wanted stomach churning Bass not some light weight book shelf effort! Just kidding but I have heard this effect for myself at a friends house and to be honest his system sounded better with no room correction and some slightly over blown bass in some regions on some recordings.

    I have actually taken my system elsewhere to hear what it sounded like in a different environment and it is shocking how massive the difference was just because of the change of room acoustics and size of room!

    So I feel its definitely worth putting as much effort and expense as you can bear into working on better room acoustics as they can make so much difference to how your system can sound and mostly always for the better. After all if you don't do anything you are just playing the room and not the system and you are not realising the full potential of your gear? I have always been surprised just how quickly the improvements can add up and transform how and what you hear from your system with room treatment.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  3. #53
    Join Date: Jun 2015

    Location: London/Durham

    Posts: 5,815
    I'm Lawrence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post

    Far more effective would be to employ quilts, cushions, pillows...

    ...a blanket recommendation is never possible.
    I was going to pull you up on the second point but I guess blankets are not technically the same as quilts.

  4. #54
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 34,306
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence001 View Post
    I was going to pull you up on the second point but I guess blankets are not technically the same as quilts.
    I thought I'd leave that in and see if anyone noticed
    Current Lash Up:

    *Audiolab 6000CDT* Soncoz SGD-1 * Nelson Pass DCB1 * Krell KSA50s * JM Lab Electra 926 *

  5. #55
    Join Date: Dec 2017

    Location: limerick

    Posts: 188
    I'm charles.

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    @Jimbo, thanks for that link. I was not aware of 'sonoritydesign'

  6. #56
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 5,305
    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sailor View Post
    @Jimbo, thanks for that link. I was not aware of 'sonoritydesign'
    Your welcome. Sonority design are a small business which is run by a friend of mine. He has spent the last 8 years building 3 acoustically modified rooms, the last and largest is detailed in the link to his blog.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  7. #57
    Join Date: Dec 2017

    Location: limerick

    Posts: 188
    I'm charles.

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    Martin, I am not sure what you are tying to do here. It appears to be a hidden agenda. You have refuted every single point I have made. More than once you mentioned that the experts disagree yet when I asked you which experts disagreed and what the disagreement was about you declined to answer. The experts do agree and I say again: you are reading the wrong experts. Your bold statement: 'even the experts disagree' is simply dismissive. Prove it!

    On page 4 my post 31 I suggested: ( As an experiment temporarily try some absorption like a couple of mattresses or duvet or similar at the first reflection points on both side walls. Use lots initially to get an idea, which if you like can then be reduced in stages till you find your room having less effect on the music. If you remove the room's huge influence then you get to hear the studio or music venue .. the target.)

    On page 5 your post 46 you provide this: "Far more effective would be to employ quilts, cushions, pillows to see of the problem can be solved/reduced that way before actually paying for proper treatments."

    This is essentially the same advice and is now getting silly. You said he should use diffusers but when I explained they would be too close to the listening position you hit me with: 'even the experts disagree on this' You have now gone in a circle and I respectfully withdraw from this discussion.

    @Chris (OP) We can take this to PM if you have any questions. Happy to help.

  8. #58
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 34,306
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sailor View Post
    Martin, I am not sure what you are tying to do here. It appears to be a hidden agenda. You have refuted every single point I have made. More than once you mentioned that the experts disagree yet when I asked you which experts disagreed and what the disagreement was about you declined to answer. The experts do agree and I say again: you are reading the wrong experts. Your bold statement: 'even the experts disagree' is simply dismissive. Prove it!

    On page 4 my post 31 I suggested: ( As an experiment temporarily try some absorption like a couple of mattresses or duvet or similar at the first reflection points on both side walls. Use lots initially to get an idea, which if you like can then be reduced in stages till you find your room having less effect on the music. If you remove the room's huge influence then you get to hear the studio or music venue .. the target.)

    On page 5 your post 46 you provide this: "Far more effective would be to employ quilts, cushions, pillows to see of the problem can be solved/reduced that way before actually paying for proper treatments."

    This is essentially the same advice and is now getting silly. You said he should use diffusers but when I explained they would be too close to the listening position you hit me with: 'even the experts disagree on this' You have now gone in a circle and I respectfully withdraw from this discussion.

    @Chris (OP) We can take this to PM if you have any questions. Happy to help.
    I did not say he should use diffusers I suggested it as an alternative course of action. You rule it out entirely, that is the only point we disagree on.

    As for experts I quoted you Toole on the subject (even gave you chapter and verse). Please re-read my post #46 which quotes him verbatim re use of diffusion 'It continues to be a topic for more research in the present context.'
    Current Lash Up:

    *Audiolab 6000CDT* Soncoz SGD-1 * Nelson Pass DCB1 * Krell KSA50s * JM Lab Electra 926 *

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