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Thread: When digital streaming sounds good, why do we pour money into the vinyl money pit?

  1. #11
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I love how the vinyl digital debate can be started by couching the question in so many different ways.
    Is there really a debate worth having? Most people in our age group seem to use both. I'm always happy to listen to either. There's not really that much difference in a sorted system, providing the records are properly clean. Sometimes I have forgotten whether I am listening to CD or LP and been surprised by the clicking of the run-out groove.

    In terms of enjoying music, which is the ultimate goal, I don't think it matters.

    if a youngster asked me for advice I'd say just stick with streaming. But if he insisted on a physical format I'd tell him to buy LPs not CDs. If you're going to start collecting a physical format you might as well go for the interesting one that appreciates in value.

    I sorted a friend out with a turntable earlier today, he wants to get into vinyl. He's 72.
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  2. #12
    Join Date: Jun 2014

    Location: Chorley Lancs

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    I'm Steve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pieoftheday View Post
    I havnt used vinyl for a long time and I have never streamed anything, I have had to RIP my CDs to a hard drive due to space constraints and whilst the flac files sound great I'd go back to using physical discs anyday.i just prefer using something I can hold ,so for me I'd def go to the expense of vinyl or CD if I had the space
    Unless your collection is really huge, I can't see storage space being that much of a problem for most people. My vinyl and CDs take up a lot less room than her clothes - that would be my defence if I was ever nagged about it. Even the granddaughter's toys take up more space, and she's only been around 3 years.
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  3. #13
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

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    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Is there really a debate worth having? Most people in our age group seem to use both. I'm always happy to listen to either. There's not really that much difference in a sorted system, providing the records are properly clean. Sometimes I have forgotten whether I am listening to CD or LP and been surprised by the clicking of the run-out groove.

    In terms of enjoying music, which is the ultimate goal, I don't think it matters.

    if a youngster asked me for advice I'd say just stick with streaming. But if he insisted on a physical format I'd tell him to buy LPs not CDs. If you're going to start collecting a physical format you might as well go for the interesting one that appreciates in value.

    I sorted a friend out with a turntable earlier today, he wants to get into vinyl. He's 72.
    No the debate is not really worth having but unlike you I would not be happy listening to both. For me there is still an important difference but I agree with other parts of your post. If I was young and no one ever played any vinyl to me I would just stream.

    I cant understand these folk who want to get back into vinyl after living with digital for so many years!
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

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  4. #14
    Join Date: Jul 2017

    Location: Kent

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    I'm Paul.

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    I've never had a deck. I've had a good few CD players and now streaming yet I long to give vinyl a go.

    The only thing that stops me is I'll be starting from scratch with zero media and not much idea on what to buy hardware wise. In the end I probably won't go down that road but just because I've only been a digital music listener doesn't mean I wouldn't like to give it a go.

    My old man had a stack full of LPs in his loft at their previous house. When they moved he just left them all up there and never thought to see if me or my brother wanted them. I still tell him to this day I would've had them but he just assumed they were for the dump or in his case the new home owners (nice little gift if you ask me)

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  5. #15
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

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    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepperamip View Post
    I've never had a deck. I've had a good few CD players and now streaming yet I long to give vinyl a go.

    The only thing that stops me is I'll be starting from scratch with zero media and not much idea on what to buy hardware wise. In the end I probably won't go down that road but just because I've only been a digital music listener doesn't mean I wouldn't like to give it a go.

    My old man had a stack full of LPs in his loft at their previous house. When they moved he just left them all up there and never thought to see if me or my brother wanted them. I still tell him to this day I would've had them but he just assumed they were for the dump or in his case the new home owners (nice little gift if you ask me)

    Sent from my M2103K19G using Tapatalk
    Wow that vinyl hoard could have contained some treasures!
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  6. #16
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepperamip View Post
    I've never had a deck. I've had a good few CD players and now streaming yet I long to give vinyl a go.

    The only thing that stops me is I'll be starting from scratch with zero media and not much idea on what to buy hardware wise. In the end I probably won't go down that road but just because I've only been a digital music listener doesn't mean I wouldn't like to give it a go.
    It really doesn't have to cost a fortune for a simple and decent sounding record playing set-up. I've had all sorts of fancy decks, arms and cartridges, but these days I seldom play records, so I've 'dumbed down' things and just run a vintage Thorens TD150 II with a Shure cartridge. This has made me revise my view on owning costlier gear, because the deck sounds great! It stands me in at around £110.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  7. #17
    Join Date: Jun 2015

    Location: London/Durham

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    I'm Lawrence.

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    Did like my TD150II should have kept it. There's something about the simplicity of the Kugelarm that seems to do something right with the music. And it's a design classic as well

  8. #18
    Join Date: Apr 2012

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence001 View Post
    Did like my TD150II should have kept it. There's something about the simplicity of the Kugelarm that seems to do something right with the music. And it's a design classic as well
    You can also get great results from the Pioneer PL-12D and Goldring (Lenco) GL75. Both of which can still be found at sensible prices if you're lucky. Strangely, the Thorens seems to be the least costly, but I regard it as the best.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  9. #19
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

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    I'm Adrian.

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    From my experience if comparing vinyl with CD(digital) then generally the aural experience can be quite different, even when listening to recordings on each medium taken from the same master recording, obviously the equipment used in both cases can and will have an impact to. I believe though the difference between the two is primarily due to the transcription process of each being distinctly different and each has its own unique compression/decompression methods.

    Vinyl has to mechanically manage low frequencies(bass) and the impact it has in trying to get a small needle to follow if not compressed would be an impractically large groove, the upper frequencies are not so affected but getting accurate high end frequencies recorded and reproduced with vinyl is also a challenge.

    Digital recording works completely differently and faces no such issues, but what does impact it is accurate timing and loss of data when trying to recreate an analogue signal, we are all familiar with the terms frequency rate, over-sampling, error correction and clocking which are aspects/methods of trying to eradicate issues with digital.

    I have a reasonably large collection of vinyl(1600+), collected over the last 8 years, 90% purchased at charity shops, used records shops or friends collections given to me. I also have around 600 CDs and quite a large number of digital files (mp3, CD equivalent and Flac).

    I returned to vinyl for several reasons, mainly because I realised that I like the way it sounds, since the early 80s I found CDs sound reproduction frustrating, it fluctuated from superb to awful depending on how, who or what had produced it, having said that you also get good and appalling records. The other reason I started re-collecting vinyl was it gave me an interest and hobby whilst I came to terms with my heart problems and it got me out and took my mind of it.

    So where am I now, I suppose my preferred listening experience is vinyl, although this is using what most would consider a not inexpensive turntable, cartridge and phono-stage amp, not top end but does a very good job, I know some who have spent double or more with not much gain in SQ in IMHO. I also listen to CDs with an Audiolab 8300cdq(very capable CDP) and to be honest it is very good and at times more revealing(accurate) than vinyl. I also listen to digital streaming, with Rpi/HiFiBerry spdif(Volumio) to DAC and with a microRendu, I have tried TIDAL, Spotify, QObuz, used ROON and Audirvāna. I find it very difficult to say one is much better than the other reproducing the same digital files. However if you compare the cost between the vinyl replay setup and the digital replay, be it CDP or streaming, then the difference in cost is huge, in the order of 10 to 20 times that for vinyl to that of digital to get a similar level of SQ.

    So in all honesty the bottom line for me is that for value for money and SQ digital wins hands down, especially if you have never heard vinyl reproduction at a good level. However I love the way vinyl sounds especially with a good record, I have never quite put my finger on why but I think it is the dynamic feeling it can portray, somehow this can be lost with digital, just a thought, it’s not necessarily better just different.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

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  10. #20
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJSki2fly View Post

    Digital recording works completely differently and faces no such issues, but what does impact it is accurate timing and loss of data when trying to recreate an analogue signal, we are all familiar with the terms frequency rate, over-sampling, error correction and clocking which are aspects/methods of trying to eradicate issues with digital.

    .
    In reality none of these things are of any consequence although they are used as marketing tools to sell people stuff they don't need. As a medium vinyl intrinsically requires more compression than digital. But recordings on digital mediums are sometimes heavily compressed. If the gain staging of the playback system is flawed this can make those recordings unlistenable.

    Sort that out and the problem mostly disappears. I think I have only two CDs that are marred by being too heavily compressed, both are 'best of' compilations.

    if you can't get the volume off of '1' with some cds or files without it sounding too loud or 'shouty' that's a problem with gain staging of the system.

    With a properly sorted system (and room) there's no consideration of format, you press play and get the sound of the recording, not the sound of the system, or the sound of the medium.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

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