Feeding the Tannoys

[GrahamFP]

Actually the level gauge was tried out in a gin distillery in Scotland.
Customs and Exise were suspicious of it so no go, but an interesting, intoxicating even, visit!

I will feed back the results.

Yesterday PM we listened to the Finnish composer Rautavara's Cantus Arcticus, which has his music played against a taped cacophony of Arctic birds and yes more clarity in the tweeter area is needed in some of the louder more cacophonous high pitched sections. But the same piece did have exactly what i wanted to hear a clear sharp riff(?) on kettle drums.

[GrahamFP]

I have been reading up on capacitors from the links given, an education but in simpler times weren't the interleaved radio tuning capacitors a lovely meeting of engineering and electronics? My first investigations into audio was the family wind-up gramophone (I still have one) And when my parents were out, my fascination with the 'pick-up' over came me and I dismantled it (age about 8) My elder sister tried to help me put it back together and save me from the wrath to come but it had to go to the menders! And all that (extracts from La Boheme, in that case) from a wavy groove in a flat disck of breakable plastic (pre-plastic)? And The Great Caruso and Gigli have still their signatures thereon! Now instead of winding a handle to keep the spring under tension we are hand winding capacitors to get a bit nearer to 'the truth' I am wondering if the essence of audiophiles is the common desire for truth? So in reading posts I think it strange that instead of asking why someone he/she holds an apparently opposing view to get nearer to any truth, people flounce off in a huff.. Cest la vie. There's a lot of it about. But back to caps I am looking for best cost/benefit pricing; Wow some capacitors cost over £200, I see how systems get so costly. Thank goodness for Ebay where upgraders deposit there stuff for me to pick up, it's like an audio thrift shop! :-)

[Macca]

Be wary of buying fakes. Use an established supplier. Don't bother with the stupidly priced ones. Some claim a sound quality benefit from them but this is, to date, not backed up by the research.

[Firebottle]

Some 'over priced' capacitors are very much form over substance, or in other words 'price over performance'.

A lot of the high price is what is commonly know as foo (marketing bollocks basically).
There are different materials that are used in capacitors, for the majority a quality (not expensive) polypropylene dielectric capacitor will be perfect.

[Lawrence001]

Some wise words there

[Pharos]

"I am wondering if the essence of audiophiles is the common desire for truth?"

That is in fact my life stance, Hi-Fi being an iconic representation of my aspiration. The removal of 'noise' and irrelevance, confoundment, crosstalk, irrelevance and obfuscation.

In our age there is so much error in thinking, and BS, even from those with serious and sincere intent, and it is spread everywhere because of the web.

With regard to a capitalism economy, BS applies to most available consumables, and in Morrisons we get expensive adjectives on the high end products; I just want the science.

[sailor]

@ Macca, Firebottle and Lawrance, so what are you guys actually saying?

What kind of research and by whom regarding the sound of different capacitors and what effort have you made to prove your point.

An inexpensive polyprop will be perfect. Oh really. Perfect for who and in what application? This suggests you have never seriously compared a good cap to the mundane.

And wise words. Which of them are wise?

I notice the site founder Marco has issues with members straying too far into the objective stance of measurements and the demand for proof. I read with interest his use of Duelund components in his XO, by no means inexpensive. Are those of us who have the temerity to claim hearing a difference all just delusional? 😵*

I suppose saying that resistors also affect the sound is part of the delusion. I am about to blow 18 bucks a pop on 4 Path Audio resistors, why, because they provide much the same upgrade as the caps. Then there is the internal wire and quality of speaker terminals and, oh never mind.

[Macca]

@ Macca, Firebottle and Lawrance, so what are you guys actually saying?

What kind of research and by whom regarding the sound of different capacitors and what effort have you made to prove your point.

An inexpensive polyprop will be perfect. Oh really. Perfect for who and in what application? This suggests you have never seriously compared a good cap to the mundane.

And wise words. Which of them are wise?

I notice the site founder Marco has issues with members straying too far into the objective stance of measurements and the demand for proof. I read with interest his use of Duelund components in his XO, by no means inexpensive. Are those of us who have the temerity to claim hearing a difference all just delusional? ��*

I suppose saying that resistors also affect the sound is part of the delusion. I am about to blow 18 bucks a pop on 4 Path Audio resistors, why, because they provide much the same upgrade as the caps. Then there is the internal wire and quality of speaker terminals and, oh never mind.

Don't know about anyone else but I'm saying that there is to date no evidence capacitors can 'sound different.' That doesn't mean they don't but it has never been demonstrated that they do. I have swapped capacitors in crossovers. Obviously if the old one is out of spec then there might well be an audible difference with the fresh one. Using good quality caps is a good idea from longevity/reliability point of view.

[Firebottle]

@ Macca, Firebottle and Lawrance, so what are you guys actually saying?

What kind of research and by whom regarding the sound of different capacitors and what effort have you made to prove your point.

Myself and many others have swapped capacitors and heard improvements or otherwise. Also to take into account is where in the circuit the particular capacitor is being used as this also makes a difference.

An inexpensive polyprop will be perfect. Oh really. Perfect for who and in what application? This suggests you have never seriously compared a good cap to the mundane.

This was a suggestion made without knowing the quality level of your system or your experience and aural acuity. In run of the mill equipment IME a reasonable quality polypropylene is a good choice. Just fitting expensive capacitors isn't a good approach if the ret of the kit won't support better performance.

And wise words. Which of them are wise?Possibly don't just chuck money at it?

I notice the site founder Marco has issues with members straying too far into the objective stance of measurements and the demand for proof. I read with interest his use of Duelund components in his XO, by no means inexpensive. Are those of us who have the temerity to claim hearing a difference all just delusional? ��*

Certainly no delusions accepted here for those who can hear a difference.

I suppose saying that resistors also affect the sound is part of the delusion. I am about to blow 18 bucks a pop on 4 Path Audio resistors, why, because they provide much the same upgrade as the caps. Then there is the internal wire and quality of speaker terminals and, oh never mind.

Everything but everything makes a difference to the sound when the quality of the kit will show it.

PS Ignore Macca with his 'to date no evidence' as some of the capacitor manufacturers have undertaken and published very detailed research, which I am not going to be arsed to find now.

[Marco]

I'll contribute to this discussion properly later, however, just to address this:

I notice the site founder Marco has issues with members straying too far into the objective stance of measurements and the demand for proof. I read with interest his use of Duelund components in his XO, by no means inexpensive. Are those of us who have the temerity to claim hearing a difference all just delusional? ��*

Firstly, Charles, no-one has the right to 'demand' anything from anyone else. They may politely request it, but not make demands.

Secondly, regardless of the 'rights' or 'wrongs' of an argument, no-one is qualified to refer to someone as "delusional", simply because what they've stated doesn't appear to 'fit' with current scientific thinking/the laws of physics or whatever, and also because they cannot hear what you're hearing, and therefore judge it conclusively.

If someone hears something that they believe is real, then they're perfectly entitled to say so, and 'prove' nothing, as long as it's not stated as fact. It remains, however, a valid opinion.

AoS is a staunchly 'ears first' subjectivist forum, so credence will always be given to what someone has heard and experienced, even if it isn't scientifically provable. That's how it is here, and members MUST respect that, so rest assured that no-one will be allowed to refer to anyone else or you as 'delusional'.

I suppose saying that resistors also affect the sound is part of the delusion. I am about to blow 18 bucks a pop on 4 Path Audio resistors, why, because they provide much the same upgrade as the caps. Then there is the internal wire and quality of speaker terminals and, oh never mind.

As Alan has just said, in my extensive experience of modifying both equipment and speakers, absolutely everything makes a difference, although sometimes the effect of such is more subtle than others. However, I've yet to hear, for example, ANY 40-year old electrolytic capacitor improve the sound of a vintage speaker more than the best (read as not necessarily the cheapest or most basic) modern polypropylene of the same electrical value. The difference is usually huge!

In the case of my own crossover experiments, not just with my Tannoys (which were transformed greatly for the better with some of the upgrades you mention), but other vintage speakers, such as Celestions, when done right, significant sonic improvements can be gained by replacing ageing, long out of spec, capacitors and resistors with the best modern equivalents, not to mention upgrading grossly inferior wiring and connectors from the 50s, 60s or 70s. In this area of audio, with electronic components and connectors, things have moved on massively!

I've had this type of work carried out recently to my original 1969 Celestion Ditton 15s, and the sonic improvements gained were both very significant, easily heard, and real. Therefore, my advice would be to do what YOU think needs doing to your own speakers, in terms of upgrades, and worry not about the naysayers. They'll often just diss things for the sake of it, as it offends their belief system, and speak from a position of near-zero practical experience!

I'm afraid that in audio you won't get very far if your thinking or decision making process is governed solely by what it says in books. The only way you really learn and make progress in this hobby is by trying stuff out, sometimes things that seemingly contradict the supposed 'facts'

Marco.