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Thread: Feeding the Tannoys

  1. #21
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,089
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    As a point of note, and in no particular order, some "overpriced" polypropylene capacitors with which I've had great success in vintage loudspeaker crossover modifications and elsewhere:

    https://www.hificollective.co.uk/com...itycap_mr.html

    https://www.hificollective.co.uk/com...gold-zcap.html

    https://www.hificollective.co.uk/com...il_in_wax.html

    https://www.hificollective.co.uk/com..._gold_oil.html

    Without exception, to my ears, within the applications in which they were used, and in the context of my system and preferences, all warranted their cost by comfortably sonically outperforming cheaper, 'bog standard' varieties, assessed within the same context.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  2. #22
    Join Date: Sep 2021

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 27
    I'm Graham.

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    Some very interesting thoughts around here. Cost/benefit is, out of financial prudence, of concern to me and I was wondering if there is a sort of hierarchy of points to consider when building up or upgrading a system. From performer to the listener's ear there is a very long audio path. To my mind the speaker/drivers are the final determing factor as to how good and true the system is. So I look at speaker crossovers as a vital link, then I was kindly and helpfully steered here to consider a more suitable amp - did that, thank you (and my Technics amp has already sold on Ebay)! Now I am looking at more modern capacitors but where in the hierachy of upgrades are such things as (as mentioned) resistors, speaker cable, CD player/tuner. record player. The whole set up is only as good as the weakest part, so it's pointless, for example, upgrading the table lamp cable (as mentioned somewhere) if the crossover's a mess or the CD player isn't up to the job. I suppose the answer lies in a acquiring an oscilloscope, so one can see what's going on hmmm...

  3. #23
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,089
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebottle View Post
    PS Ignore Macca with his 'to date no evidence' as some of the capacitor manufacturers have undertaken and published very detailed research, which I am not going to be arsed to find now.
    Here you go... Clarity Cap, for example, have produced a white paper on such, which makes for interesting reading: http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/do...cal_Report.pdf

    The key appears to be in addressing mechanical resonances inside capacitors.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  4. #24
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

    Posts: 5,826
    I'm Alan.

    Default

    Thanks Marco, I though it may have been ClarityCap
    I love Hendrix for so many reasons. He was so much more than just a blues guitarist - he played damn well any kind of guitar he wanted. In fact I'm not sure if he even played the guitar - he played music. - Stevie Ray Vaughan

  5. #25
    Join Date: Sep 2021

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 27
    I'm Graham.

    Default

    Gosh I mentioned oscilloscopes and found this: Maybe ths should be a new thread somewhere else? But what an interesting case study?
    http://troelsgravesen.dk/MG15-problem.htm As some recommended caps are a bit pricey for me at present I will see what a mid-way cost upgrade does on one speaker first (comparing speakers L v R) and I'll come back with any result.
    Last edited by GrahamFP; 24-10-2021 at 08:47. Reason: typographical error

  6. #26
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 48,025
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Some speakers sound best left alone. They don't always benefit from new components. As you've suggested, doing one at a time is a good idea and keep old components in case you feel the need to reinstall them. Also, 'upgrades' affect the resale value as speakers in original condition are the ones most sought after.
    Conspiracy theories are only perpetuated because people go looking for them!

  7. #27
    Join Date: Sep 2021

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 27
    I'm Graham.

    Default

    Aha! At least one of my daughters, still has her milk teeth in a small box, I can see I will have a similar trophy box for original speaker components - there's a connection there somehere!

  8. #28
    Join Date: Sep 2021

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 27
    I'm Graham.

    Default

    Results of capacitor upgrade: Well thank you Macca for suggesting the Denon as a first step, that actually cost me nothing as my Techics amplifier sale covered that cost. And then thanks for the advice on, specifically, the tweeter capacitor upgrade (10uF). I would have liked to have got the oil filled ones but a bit pricey at present, so I went for polypropylene film ones. They are oval in shape, so that's novel. I should say that all of the capacitors removed were well within tolerance. I changed the big 5.6 uF too. One cap to go

    Testing between upgraded and 'as original' speaker there was some suitable music on Radio three and the upgraded tweeter seemed to be performing better (and more) than the other one but the clincher was between movements when the poor signal in stereo mode hiss was in full song. The difference was very noticeable the non modified tweeter, in comparison sounded as if it had a covid mask on! So I upgraded that one too and listened to the 'God Particle' Brass Band contest piece, The drums had moved fom somewhere distant to where they should be, back of the band but in the room - Hooray! I need to find something with some gentle brush work but I am sure it will be fine. A clear improvement, pun intended. So thank you Macca and all concerned for the helpful suggestions, which have been noted and acted upon. I'll be looking for more guidance I think but pribably not until after Christmas.

  9. #29
    Join Date: Dec 2017

    Location: limerick

    Posts: 135
    I'm charles.

    Default

    Glad to hear that your efforts have proved worthwhile. There is a fair bit that can be done to most XOs. I looked online for a schematic for your speakers but found nothing so can't make specific recommendations. Also consider resistors which fortunately are not too pricey. If your XO uses the ubiquitous white sandcast resistors they can be replaced with the Mills brand which are readily available and great value. They serve to remove 'grain' and provide a cleaner less fatiguing sound. Upgrading the internal wiring will take things further and allow you to better appreciate the other mods. Perhaps consider just replacing the tweeter wires with 24AWG solid OCC copper wire or better UPOCC.

    OCC is a different method of extruding copper, reducing the crystal boundaries found in the conventional method.

    The link provides more info and introduces UPOCC :
    https://hfc-fs.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaw...what_iss_2.pdf

  10. #30
    Join Date: Sep 2021

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 27
    I'm Graham.

    Default

    Thank you Sailor, I will change resistors, the Mills ones look neater as opposed to my revised capacitors where the oval 10uF ones are huge in size compared to the originals! Regarding the wiring. I have currently rather long runs between the amplifier and speakers, about 5 metres. One speaker has quite thick multistrand, speaker cable from, ahem, dare I say? B&Q. My wife, who is pretty tolerant objected to any more of this transatlantic cable running around the lounge, (never mind those HUGE (!) Tannoys, which had to go but now have to stay, so I obliged by getting thinner cable for the other speaker. "So we'll see the difference" I said. No detectable difference between speakers. So, if the run of cable quality is only as good as the weakest part, should I not upgrade the speaker/amplifier cables as well as the internal connections, to make sense of any internal upgrades? We tend to move house reasonably frequently, so I may have to wait for the next house. Our house decisions are partly driven by having a piano but now the stereo system will figure too. I might add that my wife is somewhat wary of me 'meddling' with 'perfectly Ok' items and I have to nudge her a bit with a JCB to move on but she readily says that the speakers are 'clearer' now. Wives are definitely a component part of an audio set up! ;-)

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