Sony A9 Master Series KE48A9 OLED winging its way to Marco Towers!

[Alex_UK]

Lol - was that the same show as the legendary 'Cheap as Chips' room? That one certainly ruffled a few feathers, eh mate?

Marco.

Yes i think it was, and we certainly did ruffle a few feathers! Certainly showed that to get a decent hi-fi you don’t have to spend very much if you’re canny. I still remember to this day the guy that told me he had spent £50k on his system and it didn’t sound as good as the then playing £100 system! That’s not to say that a £50k system couldn’t sound stunning, but a lesson for me and many others that synergy and system matching with a few “under the radar” components can produce very good results. Happy days!

[Pharos]

I think it was used as a speaker of some sort in a tank, and they stopped making it because the tool for moulding the conical polyamide cone became over worn. One of the greatest revelations for me was at the BBC hearing the then LS 3/4 and 5/5 that used it.

My enthusiasm for tinkering has diminished, and I have not built an amplifier for decades, mainly because the then economic advantage for a high quality unit has diminished. Most of my more recent work has been on loudspeakers, in fact since '85 that has been so. Mainly I have done rebuilds to improve on original designs, but what becomes apparent is the limitations of the drivers. They also have much better measuring equipment professionally.

[Marco]

Interesting, Dennis... Those Celestion drive units from 'back in the day' were really top-notch

Like you say, in general the quality of such available now is sadly lacking.

Marco.

[Macca]

No, there's plenty of very good drive units around now, certainly better than in the 1980s or earlier. They just don't tend to get used in commercial speakers as they're too expensive. An extra tenner for a drive unit is another £100 or £200 on the retail price.

[Marco]

Is there though, without paying megabucks? I'd defer to Dennis' experience here as he builds stuff.

As you know, I rate Focal, but what's out there these days that's as good as or better than the likes of the aforementioned Celestion midrange and tweeter units, and in that I'd also include the KEF T27, used in the LS3/5a, at the price you can currently pick those up for?

I dunno, as I don't build stuff. However, there's a reason I generally prefer the voicing of the best vintage speakers, particularly through the presence range and top end, and that's mostly to do with the drivers!

Many, but not all, modern designs sound a little etched/brightly lit, and overall tonally 'bleached', to my ears, in comparison, and simply not as real.

Marco.

[Macca]

Is there though, without paying megabucks? I'd defer to Dennis' experience here as he builds stuff.

.

For DIY yes they are affordable, but for commercial speakers, no - not unless the speaker is retailing in the multiple thousands.

I built my last speaker back in 1995 but even then there was a big difference between the drivers that cost a tenner that get used in commercial designs, and those in the £40 range.

I hear you about vintage speakers, at least some of them. But I would say for every one that has stood the test of time there are two that sound muffled and dull by modern standards.

[Marco]

For DIY yes they are affordable, but for commercial speakers, no - not unless the speaker is retailing in the multiple thousands.

Yes, but it's not just about being affordable; it's about being as GOOD, sonically. So what modern tweeters, used by DIYers today, are as good, sonically, as the likes of an HF1300, or which midrange units are as good as, or better, than an MF500, and available at the same price or less?

I hear you about vintage speakers, at least some of them. But I would say for every one that has stood the test of time there are two that sound muffled and dull by modern standards.

Yes, I agree. Vintage speakers aren't any more of a 'magic bullet' than any other examples of vintage gear.

However, I'm only talking about the very BEST speakers in comparison with what's made today. Plus, and I know this now from considerable experience, the 'dull and muffled' effect you describe can often be eradicated, or certainly radically reduced, by upgrades to crossover caps and resistors.

Often, that's the only way to hear what vintage speakers are truly capable of, as one of the areas where technology has created MASSIVE improvements in audio, is in the design of electrical components and other things such as cables, plugs and terminals, which are a *completely* different animal from what was used 40 or 50 years ago.

That's why marrying the best of old and new can often provide superb results, and deliver the highest SPPV!

Marco.

[walpurgis]

New technology in products tends to be aimed at cheapness of production. Things are generally built down to a price, not up to a specification. The older speaker drivers tended to be the best the maker could design at the time, that largely ceased to be generations ago.

[Marco]

New new technology in products tends to be aimed at cheapness of production. Things are generally built down to a price, not up to a specification. The older speaker drivers tended to be the best the maker could design at the time, that largely ceased to be generations ago.

Couldn't agree more, mate - and the bit in bold is a sad and simple fact, unless you pay PLENTY!

And you can certainly here the sonic results when listening to many modern speakers, certainly under £3-4k.

Marco.

[walpurgis]

I prefer using drivers that don't employ Ferrofluid, partly the reason for my liking for vintage units.