Speaker re-wire and re-cap

[sailor]

I found the article I mentioned;
http://www.townshendaudio.com/PDF/Th...yond-20kHz.pdf

This should be read by anybody who wants better sound which I think applies to just about everybody subscribed to an audiophile forum.

Max Townshend is no fool and the above article is informative and quite fascinating. There are many who will not accept, even with proof, that the addition of a supertweeter improves not only the treble but bass and midrange as well.

@Macca, you state: 'If you can't hear it then you can't hear and there's no point having it. Not really much more that can be said'

I certainly can hear it and there is, if you read the article I linked to, much to be said. It appears from your myopic stance that you have neither listened to a supertweeter nor bothered to investigate whether some of these claims have any merit. Perhaps you do yourself a disservice.

[Macca]

lol perhaps I do but I doubt it.

Whilst your correct about difference tones you have to consider the amplitude as well as the frequency of your two tones.

Max Townsend is a clever bloke but he's primarily a salesman.

I own some speakers that have two super-tweeters per side.

[sailor]

Interesting, why do you bother then with expensive tweeters when you are convinced you can not hear them? Did they come with the speakers and have you tried listening to them when disconnected?

[Opti-cal]

Hi Chris, the Jantzen cap you have chosen sounds great and is a nice upgrade over the SCR (Solen) in your photo. I can't see the rest of your XO but if it uses those white sand cast abominations for resistors then while you are at it replace them too. Mills 12W are good but not the only option. I see some wires crimped to a brass push-on lug. I recommend cutting the nasty thing off and soldering instead.

Don't know if you are aware of this very informative/exhaustive cap collection review. I find it to be accurate regarding the caps I have tried.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

Do not be swayed by those who think reproduction of the very high frequencies are unimportant because they can't hear above say 14Khz. It's the higher order harmonics that contain much of the clues to the acoustic space and the placement of performers within that space.

The higher frequencies when reproduced combined with the instrument's fundamental allow the ear/brain relationship to identify that instrument. If the harmonics are removed from some instruments like piano, sax or any other and are asked to play for example middle-C, what you will hear is a pure tone of 261.6 Hz. That is to say you will not be able to tell what is producing that annoying tone. When the instruments complex harmonics are added back to the fundamental you will then be able to recognise the instrument as a piano and the more complete the harmonics the more the piano sounds like a piano and the more delineated it becomes. This leads to less listener fatigue.

In nature we tuned into these high frequencies as part of our survival mechanism. A sharp crack of branch or dry twig snapping would alert us to danger and also indicate the direction from which it may come. Now if all the old farts could not hear the top octave as part of the sound they would have all been eaten.

Look up a white paper article by Max Townshend who is a proponent and producer of super-tweeters which respond up to about 60Khz or somewhere. Can't remember the title but something to do with 'Beyond 20Khz' A very important disclosure and a way of taking your sound beyond what cables and amp upgrades can achieve.

The Miflex caps I have not heard so perhaps you would like to buy a pair of those as well so you can report back with your findings

Hi Charles,

thanks for the links. Absolutely looking forward to getting rid of those nasty looking wires and crimped spades (probably nickel or something!) for soldered OCC from binding post to driver.

Re: Sound above 16khz,

It's a conclusion I've subscribed to for a quite a while now. I've always though inaudible frequencies interact with audible ones, so simply cutting them off and removing the so called 'inaudible' ones has never made sense to me.

I used to produce a lot of electronic music and applying brick wall filters to frequencies below 10Hz and above 25khz affected the 'sound' of the frequencies in between them. For better or worse, but it did have an effect.

I always liken it to watching trees on a windy day out of the window. You can't see the wind, but you can fully see and feel it's effects on objects that you can see (and hear). It's the same with sound pressure waves (of whatever frequency).

Even though you cannot hear it, you can measure it and your ears receive these inaudible frequencies the same as audible ones, so removing them completely changes the 'make-up' of the sound and the sound waves that produce them.

I'm not really fussed if anyone else subscribes to it or not, but understanding these subtleties gives me a better chance of making my music sound better, and for me, that's the goal.

Cheers

[walpurgis]

My perception of high frequencies does not stop at "14 kHz", it stops at 10kHz, due to my age no doubt. But, things do not sound 'right' to me if frequencies above 10 kHz are missing.

[Macca]

Interesting, why do you bother then with expensive tweeters when you are convinced you can not hear them? Did they come with the speakers and have you tried listening to them when disconnected?

I was mistaken, there are actually three supertweeters per side, they are built in to the speakers. But like all supertweeters they have output in the audible range so I would notice a difference if I disconnected them. Really this is a subject for a separate thread I think.

[fatmarley]

If you can't hear it then you can't hear and there's no point having it. Not really much more that can be said.

Agree.


If a "super tweeter" crosses at 16khz with a single capacitor, then there's going to be a lot of overlap. The ST won't just start at 16khz, it will be producing sound a lot lower in frequency due to the shallow slope, and that's what you'll be hearing.

It's quite difficult to integrate a tweeter at very high frequencies and most that are done by ear will have large peaks and dips in the frequency response. I wouldn't at all be surprised if that was the case with this tweeter.

Someone on another forum posted an excellent video showing what happens to the frequency response when you try adding a super tweeter. I'll try to find it and post it here...

[struth]

My perception of high frequencies does not stop at "14 kHz", it stops at 10kHz, due to my age no doubt. But, things do not sound 'right' to me if frequencies above 10 kHz are missing.

inclined to think even if you cant hear it you can sense it not being there. odd i know

[sailor]

Hi Chris, have fun and please let us know how the mods turn out. I think you will be nicely rewarded.

[Lawrence001]

inclined to think even if you cant hear it you can sense it not being there. odd i know

There are several theories on this that were done when SACD came out and speakers were made with supertweeters on. I think one was that your brain might sense it through hairs rather than ears (or maybe it was hairs in the ears I forget). If you think that your body can sense low bass from the stomach and other parts then maybe it's not that far fetched.