Hana ML or AT Art-9?

[walpurgis]

I just don't see where the value is being created, why does a £1000 cart cost 10 times more than a £100 cart to produce? This sought of pricing is just taking audiophiles for a ride, in their heads equating price with performance. You can get a decent TT for the same price as one of these 'high end carts, think of all the materials and work that went into creating a 1210 or a Rega rp6, and then spend the same on a cart, not a chance. I actually think £300 is a rip off too, a dinky bit of plastic.

Mike, have you listened to a £1000 cartridge in a system of the quality to match? As with everything else, the law of diminishing returns applies, but if you want something good, you pay the price. A £100 cart may play music, but the £1000 item will do it better, as it should.

Actually, £1000 is just loose change in cartridge prices!

[Mikeandvan]

Mike, have you listened to a £1000 cartridge in a system of the quality to match? As with everything else, the law of diminishing returns applies, but if you want something good, you pay the price. A £100 cart may play music, but the £1000 item will do it better, as it should.

Actually, £1000 is just loose change in cartridge prices!

That may be so, but how does manufacturing a £100 cart cost exponentially more than manufacturing a £100 one?

[Mikeandvan]

To be more specific, the pricing ladder of carts is way too crazy. Let's say a range starts at £150, fine, now you want to go 'up' the ladder, next one is say £500, whoah! Then next one up is £1000, its mad. It should be £150, then £225, then £300.

[CageyH]

Why should it be?

Are you going to stick with a VM95 then?
Cheap, it plays music. Why do you need more? It is a step up from a rusty nail.

A €1k cart in my system is a reasonable level compared to the rest of the system.
It is probably the most important part in vinyl replay, so why not spend more than £300?

You are welcome to your opinion, but you original comment added nothing to this thread.

[Lurch]

That may be so, but how does manufacturing a £100 cart cost exponentially more than manufacturing a £100 one?

Simple.
Better quality materials, cost more.
Tighter tolerances, cost more.
Specialist processes, cost more.
Better diamond profiles, cost more.
R&D to increase performance, costs more.
And so it goes, with each step adding costs, and if done correctly improving performance.
Case in point being AT mm carts, the 91 starts at around £29 then you go to the 95s that run from around £45 upto £190, all with differing levels of performance that can be plainly heard.
If you can't afford it, or object to the rationale of pricing/peoples desire to aim for better, then ignore such threads and keep your negativety to your self.
For me, Iceman and others on here the Hana ML has proved itself in the real world by the level of performance it produces against our previous benchmark carts.

The ML, in the real world represents very good vfm simply by the way it performs, producing a sound that equals or exceeds that of carts that are hawked out at 2x to 4x its retail price, its that good.

Sent from my I3312 using Tapatalk

[CageyH]

That may be so, but how does manufacturing a £100 cart cost exponentially more than manufacturing a £100 one?

I think you missed out a 0 somewhere.

Some more expensive carts are handmade.
There is also economy in scale to take into consideration.

[Jac Hawk]

I just don't see where the value is being created, why does a £1000 cart cost 10 times more than a £100 cart to produce? This sought of pricing is just taking audiophiles for a ride, in their heads equating price with performance. You can get a decent TT for the same price as one of these 'high end carts, think of all the materials and work that went into creating a 1210 or a Rega rp6, and then spend the same on a cart, not a chance. I actually think £300 is a rip off too, a dinky bit of plastic.

You are paying for the skill, time and workmanship that goes into a high end cartridge, unlike a Rega Carbon they aren't just churned out, they are hand made by craftsmen, also because the workmanship is finer the amount that don't pass QC will be higher. i use an Art9 it's a fantastic cartridge i have it on an Audiomods series 6 arm on a TD160 Super and it sounds brilliant, the thing with all hifi is the more you pay the less the increase in SQ that's a fact and at this level it's more about the sound it produces matching your taste

[CageyH]

To be more specific, the pricing ladder of carts is way too crazy. Let's say a range starts at £150, fine, now you want to go 'up' the ladder, next one is say £500, whoah! Then next one up is £1000, its mad. It should be £150, then £225, then £300.

Out of interest, how much was your Audio note Soro? The cheapest I see available on HiFi shark is about €2.5k, second hand, yet €1k for a cartridge is “bullshit”. I am sure it is very nice, and I hope you got it cheaper than that.
Did you think that it offered much better value for money compared to a cheaper phono stage?

A wise man once said, if you have nothing positive to say, say nothing at all....

[Mikeandvan]

You are paying for the skill, time and workmanship that goes into a high end cartridge, unlike a Rega Carbon they aren't just churned out, they are hand made by craftsmen, also because the workmanship is finer the amount that don't pass QC will be higher. i use an Art9 it's a fantastic cartridge i have it on an Audiomods series 6 arm on a TD160 Super and it sounds brilliant, the thing with all hifi is the more you pay the less the increase in SQ that's a fact and at this level it's more about the sound it produces matching your taste

I'm sceptical, I think the cartridge makers are taking us for fools, and we should go on a strike!

[Mikeandvan]

Simple.
Better quality materials, cost more.
Tighter tolerances, cost more.
Specialist processes, cost more.
Better diamond profiles, cost more.
R&D to increase performance, costs more.
And so it goes, with each step adding costs, and if done correctly improving performance.
Case in point being AT mm carts, the 91 starts at around £29 then you go to the 95s that run from around £45 upto £190, all with differing levels of performance that can be plainly heard.
If you can't afford it, or object to the rationale of pricing/peoples desire to aim for better, then ignore such threads and keep your negativety to your self.
For me, Iceman and others on here the Hana ML has proved itself in the real world by the level of performance it produces against our previous benchmark carts.

The ML, in the real world represents very good vfm simply by the way it performs, producing a sound that equals or exceeds that of carts that are hawked out at 2x to 4x its retail price, its that good.

Sent from my I3312 using Tapatalk

I don't know, I can't see there is a huge difference in the production of various 'levels' of carts, only a huge difference in the pricing, to a gullible audio-ence equating price with quality, expectant of amazing things because of the amazing amount of money that's just left their bank accounts.