Stylus wars

[Opti-cal]

So I'm beginning to get a handle on why some styli sound/work better on certain cartridges and arms etc.

I've been trying out loads of 'budget' MM cartridges recently and combinations of headshells/shim material and changing compliance of aforementioned combinations.

I listen to all types of music but (unlike I suspect a lot of folk on here!) a lot of my vinyl listening consists of electronic music. Not all club pounding, hotly mastered sub beating offerings, destined only for pair of 1210's (although nothing wrong with them) with some stanton needles tracking at 20g! In fact some very well produced, dynamic, soundscape stuff.

To my surprise the best sound by far that I have stumbled across, has been with using a NOS conical Panasonic EPS-56STSD stylus with my Technics EPC 270C. It's not even the 'correct' stylus (although they are exactly the same dimensions as 4 or 5 others) but the combination and synergy is absolutely spot on.

My other carts (Ortofon OM10, Shure M55 Jico, Shure SC35C, AT95ex) although sound very good in their own right are genuinely obliterated by the humble Technics.

I'll spare you most of the waxing lyrical but the 'swell' of the soundstage and overall impact of the sound is nothing short of mesmerising.


A guess as to why it sounds so good include the following factors:

- Conical stylus sounds rich and full and as I have a very revealing system anyway I'm not missing the extra detail a 'better' stylus profile may provide.

- The cartridge/headshell/arm combination is approaching 'perfect' compliance.

- The cartridge/stylus is sympathetic to my dual subwoofer setup, the high output and rich bass from it is exactly what the subs need to sound at their best.

- I got lucky with the alignment/setup of the cartridge, although conical's are less picky it can't hurt to get it spot on.


So there we have it, maybe I'm a conical guy?! Along with quite a few other (mostly Japanese) audiophiles whom swear by them. I've never felt the need for hyper-analytical vinyl setup as to me the natural 'warm' presentation of vinyl is why I like it in the first place and indeed something to embrace. Maybe with more expensive styli it's more difficult to achieve the same warmth and richness from the lower registers, resulting in them sounding a bit 'bright' in comparison due to one or more of the aforementioned factors being slightly off.

This is just fine with me as generally I'm going to be spending less money replacing styli, assuming I can still find good NOS ones that is.

I've got a Nagaoka elliptical coming to try so I have high hopes for that after some positive reports but they also do a conical so I might have to try one of those too.

Having said the above I do still really like the other cartridges (especially the Shure's) on other types of music (with less demanding basslines) and I still use my LP12 with an AT-OC9 XEN and freshly repaired Linn ASAK MC cartridges which give me all the detail I'd ever need.

Like most things in hifi it's a bit horses for courses but it's great to have the option.

[eldarvanyar]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for this thread. Can you say some more about the stylus you have tried with the EPC 270 as I am looking to buy a 270 or a EPC 205 which should work well with my SL1200mkii .

I have been reading lately about spherical or conincal stylus and think that they would be good for a lot of my 80s, 90s pop rock albums and 12” records as so many of them were mixed for the radio stations. There seem to be long threads on the humble Audiotechnica AT3600L with it’s spherical stylus. It seems to have a sweet spot for many people. I have just bought one on Amazon for £12.50 to try out and maybe play around with. Thinking of rebodying it.

I wonder if the spherical stylus limits help to tame any sibilance or brightness which I find tiring in CDs and hence the moving more to vinyl.

Are there any other spherical Stylus / cartridges that are well thought of?

I know the Denon DL103 MC has a following and that’s a spherical stylus. I am keen to stay with MM due to the flexibility and lower cost than a MC. Also if i damage the stylus I can buy a replacement.

I see from your system you have an EAR 834 Phono amp in your second system which I have as well, a clone built one.

Thanks

Lee


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[Opti-cal]

Hi Lee,

happy to see someone taking an interest and treading a similar path.

I've recently acquired an original EPS 270-SD stylus (Boron cantilever). It's really nice and was a bit of an indulgence for the price, but it goes really well with the 270 cartridge for obvious reasons. I've also now been running the Nagaoka elliptical stylus for a few hours and its getting better with every record.

My original observations regarding the conical stylus (EPS 56STSD) still ring true and certainly for some material it does sound better in my system. I think you've touched on it there regarding certain albums being mastered for radio/broadcast play and therefore requiring a lively/punchy cart to make them really sing.

To be honest I'm probably going to stick close to the 270 cartridge as I now have a few spare styli for it (and indeed a couple left to try, including the Nagaoka conical version). The most famous one which springs to mind is the Denon DL 103 as you say which does have a real cult following with good reason.

The cost/enjoyment factor really does play the biggest part here, I know there will be superior carts out there (although not for this outlay I suspect). My other carts, some more expensive do certain things better than the 270 but they are not as well rounded as a performer. For me the 270 has good detail, good tracking performance along with very good bass. It is also 'airy' and holographic enough to keep me entertained. I have not yet come across another cart which does all of those things for the price.

I want to keep chucking records on all day and night but I am one of those guys conscious about stylus/ tube wear etc, so this is the solution for me. I do have some higher end carts which I will break out on occasion but this is where the sweet spot/fun factor is for me!

Incidentally I have actually sold the EAR clone (need to update SIG). Nothing wrong with it at all, its an excellent design that has stood the test of time. I have upgraded to the below plus a bit of modifying by replacing all the caps and stock tubes, it is definitely better than the EAR but it did take some work to get there.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274355847...IAAOSwjdRer-O0

I've actually got a hand built, custom fully tube rectified, phono stage on the way, I've gone on a bit of a spree . . . . oh well you only live once I guess. If it doesn't better my current stage I won't actually be that surprised, but I have to find out!

Once I have a few more hours on each styli I will update with my thoughts but my advice would be that you can't really go too far wrong with these Technics carts and styli, especially if running on an SL variant deck.

Cheers

Chris

[eldarvanyar]

Thanks for the reply Chris, interesting about the phono amp it’s actually on my watch list on eBay to buy one. Can you say a bit about what you had to do to it to improve it? Have you written about it on a forum detailing the upgrade. How does it compare to the EAR 834 Phono Clone?
Thanks
Lee


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[eldarvanyar]

I have just bagged the following Technics EPC 270C from eBay

‘For sale a nice clean Technics EPC-270C mm cartridge in good working condition. It's fitted with a patent replacement stylus with less than 30 hours on it and I am selling it with a genuine Technics stylus with less than 10 hours on it. ‘






Happy Days


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[Opti-cal]

Hi Lee,

my apologies for not getting back to you sooner but its been a rather hectic weekend!

You won't be disappointed with that stylus/cart/TT combo. Once aligned correctly it has a rich, juicy, analogue sound. Not the last word in detail by any means (but not shy on it either) but it is one of those carts/styli which highlights the pleasant differences between digital and analogue playback in my opinion.

As for the phono stage here is a pic of the caps in place (apologies its a fairly poor resolution).



Basically I replaced the main caps with Mundorf Supreme and the little lower rating caps with Clarity Cap SA range. This combination is surprisingly good and really do work well together.
I have also replaced the stock tubes with 4 X 6n23-p Voskhod "rockets" (one of my favorite tubes) and then the last stage are 2 X Phillips (Mullard) 12AT7's.
The rectifier has been changed to a 6X4 NOS Tung-Sol requiring an adapter as the socket only accepts Chinese 6Z5 (I think). It didn't sound bad before with the stock tubes and caps as I ran it for a few days but it has been elevated another couple of levels since the upgrades, no question.

The caps weren't the easiest to get in to be honest. I removed the old ones without issue but the lead wires of the new caps were a bit thicker than the ones they were replacing and there wasn't a lot of circuit track to work with. Eventually I thought the connections were too flimsy and drilled the holes through to the other side of the board so the lead wires could go all the way through and be soldered to the underside (where the tracks start) for a much better connection. The caps sit sturdily as they have good support from the lead wires now.

Another issue was quite a loud (buzzy) transformer. This wasn't due to the transformer itself but simply due to poor mechanical isolation from the chassis. I could hear it from my listening spot and it was very intrusive. I took out the bolt securing the transformer and put some rubber above and below it and now it is completely silent. This wouldn't have been difficult to do for the manufacturer but it's just one of those things that would no doubt be fixed if ever there was a mk2 version.

The difference between this and my EAR Clone (which was also modified incidentally) was just that this stage gives so much more air and space to the music. There is literally nothing I can say the EAR does better and its a very VERY good stage in its own right.

When my new stage arrives I will be comparing the two and like I say I won't be too surprised if the new one doesn't measure up but I have an itch to find out.

Another trump card this stage has over the EAR clone (and many others) is that it also has a very good MC input. It hasn't god adjustable loading as such, but if it did, I think we'd be talking about a stage in the thousands perhaps.


Another excellent feature of the 270c and associated carts, It sounds good with standard loading 150-300pf so 'normal' 47k inputs of phono stages are fine for it without the need for loading plugs or adjustment.

[eldarvanyar]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for such a comprehensive write up of the preamp it looks very good and sounds good by your experience.
I have looked at the compliance of the EPC270C on VE with the Technics Arm at 12gms.

https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridg...&search=search




The cartridge weight is 6 gms
The effective weight of the arm is 12gms
The Technics headshell is 7.5gms

Does that mean the total is 19.5gms with the arm and head-shell combined and so I have the ideal 10Hz?

Or, does the 12gms include the current headshell which will make the compliance 12Hz?
If so do I need to but a heavier headshell for the EPC270C such as a 13gm Audio Technica?

Thanks

Lee


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[Barry]

The quoted effective weight of a tonearm includes the mass of the headshell that comes with the arm. If you change the headshell, you need to modify the arm's effective mass by the difference in weight between the two headshells.

The mass of the cartridge is that of the cartridge alone, you need to add the mass of the fixings.

So, as it stands the calculated resonant frequency is ~ 12Hz, which is perfectly acceptable. In practice, the arm-cartridge resonant frequency will be a little lower: https://theartofsound.net/forum/show...idge-resonance

[eldarvanyar]

Thanks Barry for the answer and the article I have just read which is really helpful. Is there any advantage in trying to get to 10HZ by using a heavier head-shell, or is it negligible and not worth worrying about.

Thanks

Lee


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[Barry]

I wouldn't worry about it. You are using a Technics cartridge in a Technics arm of the same vintage. I'm sure Technics would have been aware of any incompatibility if it existed.

Enjoy your new cartridge - it is one of the best fixed-coil designs.