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Thread: Get Your Cartridges Out For The Lads 2021

  1. #21
    Join Date: Sep 2020

    Location: Riedstadt, Germany

    Posts: 54
    I'm Sascha.

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    I fully agree, the 103M is a complete different 103......



    best regards
    Sascha

  2. #22
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Hi Jamie,

    Quote Originally Posted by karma67 View Post
    I had an SA for a while, very nice cartridge but let down by the conical stylus, I wish I had had it re tipped.
    Does anyone know how the 103 SL sits in the ranking?
    It all depends what kind of sound you're looking for and trying to achieve, and in that respect whether super-extended 'crystalline' highs and uber-low levels of distortion are paramount (if you have the patience to 'dial in' a super-fussy fine-line stylus, in order that it successfully produces such), or a rather more forgiving (high-quality spherical tip), such as is used on all nearly all DL-103s (save the 'M' and 'D' models, which both feature elliptical tips), and which don't quite have the super-extended highs, but are still very detailed, and will generally trump a fine-line stylus, in terms of low-end heft and authority.

    Therefore, as ever in audio, it's all about choosing your compromises, as no cartridge is perfect!

    So.... Re-tipping a conical 103 with a 'posh' fine-line stylus will *fundamentally* alter its intended sonic balance, and not all for the better either, as you'll lose much of the musicality and 'fun factor' that 103s are renowned for, simply to gain a touch more clarity and detail, when you'd have been better off buying a different cartridge to begin with that majors on those aspects of sonic reproduction.

    Therefore, re-tipping any 103 like that, SA or otherwise, is not something I'd ever recommend, as in my (considerable) experience in this area, you end up losing more than you gain.

    When you had your SA, which T/T, arm and headshell was it fitted to, and which phonostage did you use, and loading did you apply? Quite simply, unless all of that was optimal, you won't have heard it's full potential, which with a correctly partnered and set-up 'SA', is considerable. I used one, which produced a similar sound to my current 'GL', for some time until I bought a modern entry-level SPU, and to my ears the SPU was a significant downgrade on the SA.

    If a 103SA has been partnered and set-up correctly, it isn't 'let down' by its conical stylus; it simply plays music as it was meant to, and as I described earlier with my 103GL. Yes, there are many MC cartridges around, fitted with fine-line styli, which will outperform it in some areas, but as previously described, the SA will also outperform those in certain areas, so it's swings and roundabouts, mate

    As for the 103SL, it's essentially a 103R in a 'fancier dress', same specs but it has a superior shell. Therefore, if you can fine a NOS one, it's a decent cartridge, but not as good as a C1, GL or SA, or as others here have rightly praised, a 103M, which has a special elliptical tip, much lower output, and again a special housing, designed to limit resonance, and therefore coloration.

    The combination of its lower output, due to fewer coil windings (thus requiring the use of a phonostage, head amp or SUT with suitably high gain to maximise its potential) and elliptical tip, allows it to produce a 'sweeter', more refined sound than spherical-tipped 103s, but lack their low-end heft and bass power, although what it produces is still more than adequate for adequately reproducing most material.

    Therefore, to summarise, in my opinion, the three top models, and arguably most desirable 103s to have, are the GL, followed by the SA and M. However, depending on what you're looking for, the M could easily be number one! Optimally partnered, it's a stunning cartridge, producing a sound right up there with the very best high-end MCs, at a fraction of the price!

    And then of course there's the DL-S1, which is like an M, only more so!! Oh, and the 103-Pro, which is an altogether different beast again....

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  3. #23
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 4,737
    I'm jamie.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hi Jamie,



    It all depends what kind of sound you're looking for and trying to achieve, and in that respect whether super-extended 'crystalline' highs and uber-low levels of distortion are paramount (if you have the patience to 'dial in' a super-fussy fine-line stylus, in order that it successfully produces such), or a rather more forgiving (high-quality spherical tip), such as is used on all nearly all DL-103s (save the 'M' and 'D' models, which both feature elliptical tips), and which don't quite have the super-extended highs, but are still very detailed, and will generally trump a fine-line stylus, in terms of low-end heft and authority.

    Therefore, as ever in audio, it's all about choosing your compromises, as no cartridge is perfect!

    So.... Re-tipping a conical 103 with a 'posh' fine-line stylus will *fundamentally* alter its intended sonic balance, and not all for the better either, as you'll lose much of the musicality and 'fun factor' that 103s are renowned for, simply to gain a touch more clarity and detail, when you'd have been better off buying a different cartridge to begin with that majors on those aspects of sonic reproduction.

    Therefore, re-tipping any 103 like that, SA or otherwise, is not something I'd ever recommend, as in my (considerable) experience in this area, you end up losing more than you gain.

    When you had your SA, which T/T, arm and headshell was it fitted to, and which phonostage did you use, and loading did you apply? Quite simply, unless all of that was optimal, you won't have heard it's full potential, which with a correctly partnered and set-up 'SA', is considerable. I used one, which produced a similar sound to my current 'GL', for some time until I bought a modern entry-level SPU, and to my ears the SPU was a significant downgrade on the SA.

    If a 103SA has been partnered and set-up correctly, it isn't 'let down' by its conical stylus; it simply plays music as it was meant to, and as I described earlier with my 103GL. Yes, there are many MC cartridges around, fitted with fine-line styli, which will outperform it in some areas, but as previously described, the SA will also outperform those in certain areas, so it's swings and roundabouts, mate

    As for the 103SL, it's essentially a 103R in a 'fancier dress', same specs but it has a superior shell. Therefore, if you can fine a NOS one, it's a decent cartridge, but not as good as a C1, GL or SA, or as others here have rightly praised, a 103M, which has a special elliptical tip, much lower output, and again a special housing, designed to limit resonance, and therefore coloration.

    The combination of its lower output, due to fewer coil windings (thus requiring the use of a phonostage, head amp or SUT with suitably high gain to maximise its potential) and elliptical tip, allows it to produce a 'sweeter', more refined sound than spherical-tipped 103s, but lack their low-end heft and bass power, although what it produces is still more than adequate for adequately reproducing most material.

    Therefore, to summarise, in my opinion, the three top models, and arguably most desirable 103s to have, are the GL, followed by the SA and M. However, depending on what you're looking for, the M could easily be number one! Optimally partnered, it's a stunning cartridge, producing a sound right up there with the very best high-end MCs, at a fraction of the price!

    And then of course there's the DL-S1, which is like an M, only more so!! Oh, and the 103-Pro, which is an altogether different beast again....

    Marco.
    when i say 'let down' i simply mean in comparison to a cartridge that uses a fine line or the like stylus,the conical tip can not extract the amount of detail that those do. my experiance was going from the SA to an audio technica art-7.fortunately i do have the patience to dial these in and the reward makes for a very pleasurable listening experience,on the flip side using the sa was a breath of fresh air as not having to fuss with vta and azimuth was lovely.

    in contrast i also got a lot of enjoyment for my time with the SA,as you say real drive and heft and great cartridge and one i would like to re visit.
    i used it with a zeta tonearm and made headshell weights for it,one i sent to you. the head amp was a denon ha-500 that phonomac rebuilt to ha-1000 spec.
    i also owned a denon 103m but compared to the sa it sounded rather different and not to my taste in comparison,i much prefered the sa.
    My System
    John Wood KT88 Amp.
    Paradise Phono Stage
    Sony TTS-8000 Turntable.
    PMAT-1010 MK6 Tonearm.
    Ortofon Cadenza Bronze
    Sony X555ES Cd Player
    Yamaha NS1000m Speakers

  4. #24
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Hi Jamie,

    No worries, mate - all noted! All I meant really was that even with a re-tip, you'll never get a 103SA (or for that matter ANY 103) to sound like an ART-7! All you'll achieve is ruining what it's good at in the process.

    So, far better just to buy a cartridge that majors on fine-detail retrieval in the first place. I'm afraid I've yet to hear a 103, re-tipped with a 'posh' stylus or cantilever that I've liked, as I can hear what the modification has robbed from the sound, as well as any arguable 'improvements'.

    Too many folks, unfortunately, think that fitting a 103 with a fine-line stylus will simply 'fix' its limitations, whilst retaining its good points, and that's simply not the case, as there's always a trade-off.

    A little tip for anyone wanting to add a little more 'sparkle' to the top end of a 103, is to fit the partnering headshell with solid-silver cartridge leads, which is why I went for the Kondos with the GL (as they add a welcome subtle touch of treble refinement), but otherwise my advice would be to leave well alone.

    Anyway, hope I've answered your query about the SL

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  5. #25
    Join Date: Sep 2017

    Location: Dublin

    Posts: 506
    I'm Pavel.

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    A friend of mine runs a DL-103 retipped with a Shibata stylus on a boron cantilever, it's definitely more polite than the stock DL-103 but still retains a bit of that "boogie" character. A nice middle ground between the "vintage" sound of DL-103 and the sound of modern MCs.

  6. #26
    Join Date: Sep 2014

    Location: brighton uk.

    Posts: 4,737
    I'm jamie.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Hi Jamie,

    No worries, mate - all noted! All I meant really was that even with a re-tip, you'll never get a 103SA (or for that matter ANY) 103 to sound like an ART-7! All you'll achieve is ruining what it's good at in the process.

    S,o far better just to buy a cartridge that majors on fine-detail retrieval in the first place. I'm afraid I've yet to hear a 103, re-tipped with a 'posh' stylus and cantilever that I've liked, as I can hear what the modification has robbed from its sound, as well as any arguable 'improvements'.

    Too many folks, unfortunately, think that by fitting a 103 with a fine-line stylus will simply 'fix' its limitations, whilst retaining its good points, and that's simply not the case, as there's always a trade-off.

    Anyway, hope I've answered your query about the SL

    Marco.
    yep cheers for the info,currently checking out GL's
    My System
    John Wood KT88 Amp.
    Paradise Phono Stage
    Sony TTS-8000 Turntable.
    PMAT-1010 MK6 Tonearm.
    Ortofon Cadenza Bronze
    Sony X555ES Cd Player
    Yamaha NS1000m Speakers

  7. #27
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,850
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shovel_Knight View Post
    A friend of mine runs a DL-103 retipped with a Shibata stylus on a boron cantilever, it's definitely more polite than the stock DL-103 but still retains a bit of that "boogie" character. A nice middle ground between the "vintage" sound of DL-103 and the sound of modern MCs.
    Denon used to make a Shibata tipped 103, designated the DL103S, and had a pale grey coloured body. It received mixed reviews.
    Barry

  8. #28
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    No worries. Try Samurai Electronics, on ebay. He's a good guy. That's where I got mine from. Btw, see my tip about siver cartridge leads, which I added to my last post

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  9. #29
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shovel_Knight View Post
    A friend of mine runs a DL-103 retipped with a Shibata stylus on a boron cantilever, it's definitely more polite than the stock DL-103 but still retains a bit of that "boogie" character. A nice middle ground between the "vintage" sound of DL-103 and the sound of modern MCs.
    Hi Pavel,

    That's cool, if your friend likes it, which is the main thing, but I simply don't see the point. If you want a 103 to sound "more polite", or more like the sound of modern MCs, than by a modern MC, rather than adulterate something else.

    That's just my view

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #30
    Join Date: Sep 2018

    Location: amsterdam The Netherlands

    Posts: 66
    I'm Paul.

    Default

    I have 3 carts. Benz Micro Glider L2, Holistic Audio 103 (DL103Pro) and an AT33PTGII No picture from the last.

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

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