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Thread: SCORE!

  1. #11
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 103,444
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Hi Rob,

    Quote Originally Posted by Filterlab View Post
    What he said. The 5691’s are the holy grail of 6SL7 replacements. I have the Melz 6H9Cs in at the moment, which are very very good indeed, but these are the best of the lot apparently.

    The buffer is on around 14 hours a day (on when I wake up, off when I go to bed - the system plays pretty much all day). That’s about 5,000 hours a year so these should do me four years, or more hopefully.
    Nice one. How much did you pay for the quad? IME, NOS/NIB ones are normally around £70 a piece (or the equivalent in dollars).

    I rate the 5691s highly, especially in terms of construction and reliability. I'm also a fan of Melz 6H9Cs. I've used both in my Croft. However, there are other 6SL7s that could also be considered as 'the holy grail'. If you get an opportunity, try some 1940s vintage [*must* be that, not later versions] black glass Tung Sol 6SU7GTY or Mullard ECC35 ['tall glass' with short brown base, such as shown here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/1008033773?iid=383269849766 ) both of which IMO would give your 5691s a run for their money!

    However, as I've said to Andy elsewhere, much of this comes down to the circuit that the valves are being used in and your personal sonic preferences. Enjoy!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from a TCD-420.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW18.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  2. #12
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 103,444
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Interesting thread here, from the Andy-boy, lol: https://theartofsound.net/forum/show...ENTURES!/page5

    I have to say that I agree with Drew in preferring the Tung Sols to the 5691s - and for the very same reasons!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from a TCD-420.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW18.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  3. #13
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 103,444
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    Have you got the 5 hole version of the Melz? If so, interested in selling?
    Andy, as far as I know (although I could be wrong, as I'm not 100% sure), the proper 'holed' version of the Melz is only available as 6H8C (6SN7), not as 6H9C (6SL7), which is what you need for your Croft.

    The desirable 'holed' 6H8C look like this (I have some, which I use in my Copper amp): https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N8S-6H8...wAAOSw-RlfsdZA

    As opposed to the 'holes' in Melz 6H9C, which are quite different:https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-METAL-B...8AAOSwnHZYeuAO

    You'll see that the construction of the (holed) anodes there is very different from those in the 6H8Cs, so bear that in mind

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from a TCD-420.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW18.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

  4. #14
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norfolk, UK

    Posts: 5,125
    I'm Rob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    However, there are other 6SL7s that could also be considered as 'the holy grail'. If you get an opportunity, try some 1940s vintage [*must* be that, not later versions] black glass Tung Sol 6SU7GTY or Mullard ECC35 ['tall glass' with short brown base, such as shown here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/1008033773?iid=383269849766 ) both of which IMO would give your 5691s a run for their money!
    I paid £266 for the quad of 5691s (£66.50 per valve) plus £18 shipping. As I got them from a chap in Spain there were no import charges of course - that'll end soon no doubt.

    Well so far the 5691s have been the best on my valve buffer, but I'm always keen to try other valves of course. I have to say that the Melz 6H9Cs really are splendid, especially the scintillating treble. I have another NOS pair of metal base OTKs winging their way to me from Ukraine, so I'll then have five pairs of valves in the cupboard (pair of 40s NOS Sylvania 6SL7GTs, 2x pairs of 50s Melz 6H9Cs [one pair NOS], The Tung Sols [below] and the other pair of NOS 5691s).

    I did purchase a new pair of Tung-Sol 6SL7GT gold tips from Hotrox, but they were incredibly disappointing. Flat and lifeless, rolled off, dull. Granted I may not have given them enough time, but you know how it feels when you just know something won't improve *that much* - just a waste of time waiting.

    I left the buffer stage switched on over last night to get a few hours of warming into the 5691s, and this morning they just sound absolutely stonkingly fabulous. The bass control, depth, punch and weight is the most staggering thing about them, so far anyway; the treble too is electrifying. Just playing a bit of YouTube Music autoplay currently, bit of chill out. Will listen properly later.

    I'll look out for the Tung Sols and Mullards. I've read good things about their ECC35 tall glass jobs. I did have a scan around but couldn't see any matched pairs available, tricky find I reckon. I've spent enough for one month I think, those ECC35s ain't cheap!

    What has enamoured me though is the quality of sound valves bring to a system. There seems to be lots of nonsense written around the web (surprise surprise) saying that they colour the sound, kill the treble, add distortion etc etc., but I've only heard 'more' with the valve buffer in place; more life, more musicality, more detail, more impact - with no detriment. I can't believe I've been into Hi-Fi for 35 years and never bothered with valves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Andy, as far as I know (although I could be wrong, as I'm not 100% sure), the proper 'holed' version of the Melz is only available as 6H8C (6SN7), not as 6H9C (6SL7), which is what you need for your Croft.

    The desirable 'holed' 6H8C look like this (I have some, which I use in my Copper amp): https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N8S-6H8...wAAOSw-RlfsdZA

    As opposed to the 'holes' in Melz 6H9C, which are quite different:https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-METAL-B...8AAOSwnHZYeuAO

    You'll see that the construction of the (holed) anodes there is very different from those in the 6H8Cs, so bear that in mind

    Marco.
    I searched through hundreds of images of the Melz 6H9Cs to see if there was a different build, but I too could only find the 6H8Cs with the holes in the anodes. My Melz 6H9Cs are these ones, but I'm not selling.



    The RCAs are lovely looking things too...





  5. #15
    Join Date: Oct 2011

    Location: Glasgow/Italy

    Posts: 846
    I'm Drew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Filterlab View Post
    What he said. The 5691ís are the holy grail of 6SL7 replacements. I have the Melz 6H9Cs in at the moment, which are very very good indeed, but these are the best of the lot apparently.
    Great tubes for sure but IMO not the best of the lot. That accolade goes to the Tung Sol 6U7GTY: slightly less dry and full bodied with glorious mids...

  6. #16
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norfolk, UK

    Posts: 5,125
    I'm Rob.

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    They must be good!

  7. #17
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,447
    I'm AnDreW.

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    I do not think that the 5691 and the Tung Sol 6U7GTY are entirely the same thing, in fact I'm sure that they have different specs and as such I think the 6U7GTY will not correctly work to full efficiency with a 6SL7 only circuit, that is unless it's been tweaked to do so. This is my understanding, I could be wrong and would like to be corrected if I'm talking knackers. My Croft which was designed to run with 6SL7's it would run 5691's but not to full efficiency and needed an upgrade to get the 5691 heaters working to full capacity. I wonder if this is the same with the 6U7GTY???????
    SS

    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE

    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 301/401(Bastin) Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)

    REAL SOUND


    PRE Radford SC25 (Mullard ECC83/82) POWER RADFORD STA25 Renaissance (Electroharmonix EL34) SPEAKERS Celestion Ditton 15 (Duelund Rewired/Jantzen+Duelund Recapped) CABLES Speaker - Duelund AWG 12IC - Belden 8402+Switchcraft RCA



  8. #18
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 8,447
    I'm AnDreW.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Andy, as far as I know (although I could be wrong, as I'm not 100% sure), the proper 'holed' version of the Melz is only available as 6H8C (6SN7), not as 6H9C (6SL7), which is what you need for your Croft.

    The desirable 'holed' 6H8C look like this (I have some, which I use in my Copper amp): https://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-6N8S-6H8...wAAOSw-RlfsdZA

    As opposed to the 'holes' in Melz 6H9C, which are quite different:https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-METAL-B...8AAOSwnHZYeuAO

    You'll see that the construction of the (holed) anodes there is very different from those in the 6H8Cs, so bear that in mind

    Marco.
    Thanks for the heads up, that's one less thing to buy!
    SS

    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DAC Caiman SEG+15V PSU+Dorado DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe/Ebony PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE

    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modified) AMP Sondex S100 (Modified) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Reference XO DECKS Garrard301/401 (Bastin) Mat Teunto Bearings 301/401(Bastin) Plinth Moldovan/Bastin Arms 3009/3012(Ikeda Ag wired) SME V 12 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister v2 / Royall N SPU's CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ Speaker 10mm Cu + WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostage Paradise(4 Box Modded) / EAR 834 Clone (modded)

    REAL SOUND


    PRE Radford SC25 (Mullard ECC83/82) POWER RADFORD STA25 Renaissance (Electroharmonix EL34) SPEAKERS Celestion Ditton 15 (Duelund Rewired/Jantzen+Duelund Recapped) CABLES Speaker - Duelund AWG 12IC - Belden 8402+Switchcraft RCA



  9. #19
    Join Date: Oct 2011

    Location: Glasgow/Italy

    Posts: 846
    I'm Drew.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    I do not think that the 5691 and the Tung Sol 6U7GTY are entirely the same thing, in fact I'm sure that they have different specs and as such I think the 6U7GTY will not correctly work to full efficiency with a 6SL7 only circuit, that is unless it's been tweaked to do so. This is my understanding, I could be wrong and would like to be corrected if I'm talking knackers. My Croft which was designed to run with 6SL7's it would run 5691's but not to full efficiency and needed an upgrade to get the 5691 heaters working to full capacity. I wonder if this is the same with the 6U7GTY???????
    The 6SU7GTY is essentially a premium 6188 tube and a very close sub for the 6sl7- the specs are virtually identical with the exception of the Va max for the 6SU7 which is 250, while the 6SL7's is 300. It works like a dream in place of the 6SL7

  10. #20
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Norfolk, UK

    Posts: 5,125
    I'm Rob.

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    6SL7
    6SL7GT
    ECC35
    6H9C
    6188
    5691
    6SU7
    6SU7GTY
    6N9S

    All interchangeable with little issue I understand. Thereís probably more monikers for the same convention.

    Correct me if Iím wrong.

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