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Thread: Upgrading my Technics 1200G

  1. #11
    Join Date: Nov 2020

    Location: Cheshire

    Posts: 7
    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovejoy View Post
    Watching this thread with interest. I'm 99% happy with my 1200G as it is, but as I'd mentioned in my thread yesterday, I'm noticing quite a lot of sibilance. a general consensus that the arm is indeed the weak point of the turntable, so an arm change may end up happening,
    I am not familiar with sibilance. Is sibilance the one where the high notes such as cymbals sound as if there is a fine crackling/buzzing noise coming from the tweeters? Particularly in rock songs with choir singers in the background?

    In regards to the arm, I would ignore what people say. It is a high quality and decent magnesium alloy arm. Changing the arm pretty much gets rid of the whole Technics sound. Might as well have gone for a Linn then.
    Naim NAP300DR, Naim Uniti Nova, Technics SL1200G+AT VM95ML+KAB fluid damper, Graham Slee Reflex Era Gold X+PSU1 phono, Focal 716V

  2. #12
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Oakengates, Shropshire

    Posts: 650
    I'm Richard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWars View Post
    I am not familiar with sibilance. Is sibilance the one where the high notes such as cymbals sound as if there is a fine crackling/buzzing noise coming from the tweeters? Particularly in rock songs with choir singers in the background?

    In regards to the arm, I would ignore what people say. It is a high quality and decent magnesium alloy arm. Changing the arm pretty much gets rid of the whole Technics sound. Might as well have gone for a Linn then.
    The problems with sibilance for me is where you have vocal recordings where there are sharp or loud 'S' sounds. It's notoriously difficult to master LPs with loud 'S'es because it's the hardest thing for a cartridge/arm to track, so a lot of the time, the mastering engineer will 'de-ess' the vinyl master, i.e. reduce the level or perform some filtering on the S sound to make it easier to track. It can be particularly bad at the end of a side. There are some albums where there's just no getting away from it because the mastering is not great, but when it starts happening on stuff you're familiar with where the S sounds were clean before, you know something isn't quite right with the setup. What happens is that what should be a smooth sounding natural S sound becomes spitty and distorted, making the singer sound like they have a lisp. It can be extremely distracting - to me anyway.

    The Technics sound for me, and the whole reason for me moving in that direction is the solidity and pitch stability that direct drive brings. I don't think I could ever go back to a belt driven deck now.
    Rich

  3. #13
    Join Date: Nov 2020

    Location: Cheshire

    Posts: 7
    I'm James.

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    Ah I see. I dont have any issues like the ones you describe but at times I do get the high notes sound quite sharp and as if there is a high pitch buzzing sound. The notes become almost a white noise and it is quite distracting at times. I' m not sure if I have done something wrong with alignign the cartirdge or whether my aging speakers are struggling to cope.
    Naim NAP300DR, Naim Uniti Nova, Technics SL1200G+AT VM95ML+KAB fluid damper, Graham Slee Reflex Era Gold X+PSU1 phono, Focal 716V

  4. #14
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Banbury, Oxfordshire/Panteg is where my late father was born

    Posts: 4,389
    I'm Chris.

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    I doubt it's the arm, just need a better cartridge! I would recommend a cart with a superior tip.
    Such as a line contact or shibata.
    I currently have a Hana SL on my Voyd and there are no issues with sibilance with superb tracking.
    Chris

    We've gone on holiday by mistake !

  5. #15
    Join Date: Nov 2020

    Location: Cheshire

    Posts: 7
    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris@panteg View Post
    I doubt it's the arm, just need a better cartridge! I would recommend a cart with a superior tip.
    Such as a line contact or shibata.
    I currently have a Hana SL on my Voyd and there are no issues with sibilance with superb tracking.
    TBH, the topic of "better cartridge" is turning into a nightmare for me. The more people I ask the more different opinions I get. Some say shibata is better than microline and others say the oppsite. Many also say that the AT95ML is hard to beat in the sub £600 category. Others say that the 95ML is a basic cartidge.

    The more i dig the more I get confused. Christ knows.

    I intend to stick with MM though. The MC is not for me. Way too expensive for what it is and the yield is not proportionate to the price unless you spend over £1k.
    Naim NAP300DR, Naim Uniti Nova, Technics SL1200G+AT VM95ML+KAB fluid damper, Graham Slee Reflex Era Gold X+PSU1 phono, Focal 716V

  6. #16
    Join Date: Mar 2013

    Location: eastbourne

    Posts: 173
    I'm alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lovejoy View Post
    Watching this thread with interest. I'm 99% happy with my 1200G as it is, but as I'd mentioned in my thread yesterday, I'm noticing quite a lot of sibilance. My last tonearm was a bearingless Well Tempered so my suspicions around the sibilance lie with the arm bearings and a lot of reading around forms a general consensus that the arm is indeed the weak point of the turntable, so an arm change may end up happening, but thanks to Kevin's recommendation yesterday I've ordered a Funk Firm Houdini which I am hoping might address this rather niggly shortcoming. £300 seems like quite a lot of money for such a small device, but if it cures the sibilance I'll be 100% happy and reading around on the other benefits it can bring, it may well be another step up. It's also a much less obtrusive change than an arm replacement, so if it works I'll be happy to stop there..

    In terms of mats, I've replaced the original heavy rubber one for an Achromat 5mm and that has worked very nicely. I didn't much like what the Achromat did on my Well Tempered giving everything something of an etched sound, but on the SL1200G it's very natural sounding.

    I've also fitted my Funk Firm Boing feet to the 1200G which I was on the verge of selling on, but they're a definite improvement on the stock feet. It's gained quite a bit more insight into everything, and that's with the deck already on a solid wall shelf.
    I really donít think the sibilance is down to the arm especially as the stock arm is pretty good. Iíd be very surprised if you had any problems if you fitted an AT with microline stylus (e.g AT 440 mla or AT 150 mlx or their modern equivalents). Another plus is that they are not difficult to set up unlike the Ortofon 2M Black which never worked for me although I tried it in three different arms. Once I noticed that I hadnít snapped the stylus assembly of an AT 440 properly into the cartridge body so the VTA was quite a bit out but it still tracked fantastically without any sibilance. However a microline stylus will pick up a lot of dirt or dust because its profile reaches the bottom of the groove that elliptical profiles often donít. Also I believe that because many elliptical styli donít reach right down into the groove they wobble a little and this causes sibilance on difficult passages. But of course please correct me if Iím wrong.

  7. #17
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Oakengates, Shropshire

    Posts: 650
    I'm Richard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanc View Post
    Also I believe that because many elliptical styli donít reach right down into the groove they wobble a little and this causes sibilance on difficult passages. But of course please correct me if Iím wrong.
    I think you may well have hit the nail right on the head there Alan. My Soundsmith is an Elliptical profile and I have to admit that until I fitted the Funk Houdini last week that I hadn't paid a huge amount of attention to getting it aligned to the nth degree, so there were a few unbearably sibilant records. Things improved with the Houdini which I at first put down to the Houdini itself (although that has made many worthwhile improvements in other areas) but it just seems that my alignment was a bit more accurate in re-fitting the cartridge. I've since spent a fair bit more time getting it aligned to what Technics/Soundsmith recommend and sibilance I would say is now minimal, but not eradicated so it does seem that I'm at the limit of what the stylus profile will track, but on the majority of records it sounds awesome so I'm not itching to change it right now, but when I do, it will most certainly be for something with a fine line stylus.
    Rich

  8. #18
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glastonbury, Somerset

    Posts: 606
    I'm Jason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWars View Post
    TBH, the topic of "better cartridge" is turning into a nightmare for me. The more people I ask the more different opinions I get. Some say shibata is better than microline and others say the oppsite. Many also say that the AT95ML is hard to beat in the sub £600 category. Others say that the 95ML is a basic cartidge.

    The more i dig the more I get confused. Christ knows.

    I intend to stick with MM though. The MC is not for me. Way too expensive for what it is and the yield is not proportionate to the price unless you spend over £1k.
    I agree that cart matching can be a bit of a nightmare. But I disagree about your MC statement. Something like an AAT33PTG III would match your TT very well, tracks like a demon (very little sibilance or inner groove distortion, provided its set up correctly) and will cost something like £400.
    ----------------------
    Before you criticise a man, walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you do - you'll be a mile away. And have his shoes.

    Wavy grooves go thru a Nagaoka OS300 on a Dual CS5000. Digits stream from a cheapie CDP and a Sonos, into a Yamaha 803D driving Rega RS3s. I used to have a Linn but I'm better now.

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