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Thread: Experiments in Isolation

  1. #11
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

    Posts: 4,779
    I'm Shaun.

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    I've had ferrites on interconnects for years and won't be removing them any time soon although I guess if I did I'd then know their effects (or not).

  2. #12
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,239
    I'm Adrian.

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    An update to my Exploration into Isolation, in this case speaker decoupling.

    So I took the plunge and purchased these through Amazon. https://www.hudsonhifi.com/collectio...isolation-feet

    they also do smaller blocks.

    or https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08GLBKRYZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    It certainly has changed the sound from the previous more stiffer blocks. Initially I though it sounded a little odd, and then I realised it was greater separation and definition, meaning that the recording had opened up. There seems to be a wider sound stage and a bigger 3D effect, the drums are easy to distinguish and definitely have some great extension, I can also pick out the bass easier. That is listening to Los Endos on Genesis “A Trick of the Tail”, big drums and bass.

    Just put on the Ravi Shankar 'Portrait of Genius', I have not heard the tablas sound so realistic, they have much tighter attack as they are hit and the hollowness of the drums is more accurate, and there is a clear decay to them. At the same time the other instruments are better defined, sound as if they are in the room, wonderful.

    Probably the best £50 I have spent on my Hifi. It does seem counter-intuitive to have slightly wobbly speakers, I have spent 40+ years using rigid spikes being told this was the way, as far as my ears are concerned complete and utter tosh.

    Doing this in IMO is a no brainer.



    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  3. #13
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,239
    I'm Adrian.

    Default Further Isolation exploration

    Hi

    I have done some more experimentation with thesewww.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B082TVRVL4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1, my friend has them under his Tannoy Kensington GRs.

    IMO opinion a very similar result to the wobbly rocket thruster, but with a little stronger bass, but not necessarily better. I also used these with sorbothane semisheres placed between them and the speaker bottom, this result in more wobble but less than with the rockets. The result being sonically it moved closer to with just the rockets.

    I listened to side 1 of Ravi Shankar - Portrait of Genius all morning and kept swapping them around. My conclusion was that as my ears adjusted the rubber rockets gave a more accurate rendition, even though initially it seemed like a bass drop. This was highlighted to me when I listened to Emerson, Lake and Palmer - Trilogy on several tracks I could separate the bass from the organ with the rockets, but with the others it became fuzzy and virtually possible to separate them aurally.

    So my conclusion is that you need time for your ears and brain to adjust to it. I remember something similar when using narrow band eq to lower 1st, and 2nd order reverberation for my room at 65hz and 130hz using Audirvana software, initially it made things sound a bit flattened in the low end, but improved with time. The chap who recommended doing this said you neede to allow 5-7 days of listening for you hearing/brain to adjust, basically because it was pre-conditioned to over-emphasised bass.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  4. #14
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,239
    I'm Adrian.

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    Carrying on from where I left off, and because of a couple of findings by others on another site, I decided to re-visit my speakers and isolation.

    First I spent quite a bit of time re-reading about speaker set up, even though I have been through various set ups paradigms, and I decided to follow the WASP advice, https://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html , it does not apply just to their speakers.



    So what I found out was that my speaker position was not quite as optimised as it could be, according to WASP, I needed them slightly further forward 3" and with the restriction of my room moved them closer together by about 4" and centralised them in the room(only 2" out). This brought them just inside the boxes I had found using the WASP procedure. The biggest change I adopted was to increase the toe in angle quite substantially. I also took quite some time investigating the optimum listening position. Usually I sit 3.4m from the speakers, they are now 2.08m apart, so theory states the optimum sitting position is 1.15 to 1.25 times the distance apart from the speakers. I have settled for 2.08*1.25 which is 2.6m. I mainly do serious listening when Sue is out or at work so where sit in my Ekoness chair then does not really matter.

    I spent quite some time on toe in alignment, what I found here is exactly as the article says, careful alignment will reward you with a stunning soundstage with great depth and detail across all frequencies. So all this effort resulted into a definite improvement as far as my system sounded. I would recommend any of you who have not paid this level of attention to your set up that you do so, take your time and you will certainly maximise your listening experience.

    Having done the above I decided to revisit my assessment of the wobbly rockets(Hudson HiFi Bigfoot isolators), washing machine isolators, and speaker spikes onto rubber floor protection.
    isolators.

    Starting with the speaker spikes onto rubber floor protection, I noticed some loss in bass and even mid range definition, it is difficult to describe but things became a bit blurred.

    Next was the washing machine isolators, this was an improvement in definition, but the bass IMO was hardly changed compared to when using speaker spikes onto rubber floor protection.

    So finally I put the Hudson Bigfoots back and listened to several demanding tracks as before, from Ravi Shankar - Portrait of Genius, Rage Against the Machine - 1st Album, and Eva Cassidy - Nightbird. What is very clear from the Rage Against the Machine tracks is just how clearer and more controlled the thunderous bass now is, it actually sound like a real bass guitar pumping out in the room which I can easily operate form the drumming and guitar. I have played in several amateur bands and I would say that this is realistic to how a band should sound out of a system I have got. The Ravi Shankar is as if the band is sitting in the room, and I can clearly hear nuances on the tablas, sitar and flute. Eva Cassidy "Fields of Gold' carries a sense of purity, her acoustic guitar being very natural to listen to, the electric guitar and acoustic are better separated and their harmonic interplay is easier to hear. The other track, a bluesy number, 'Baby I Love You' is much improved, previously there had been a tendency for the bass lines to muddy the experience, now I can clearly hear all the instruments, the bass is clear and deep but not dominant.

    In initially using the Hudsons I had experienced what Jerry described on some tracks as a loss of depth in the bass, however I now feel that I have overcome this by carefully addressing speaker set up along with listening position.

    I hope some of you may find this useful.
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  5. #15
    Join Date: May 2011

    Location: Glasgow

    Posts: 7,718
    I'm Brian.

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    I ordered the smaller Hudson supports for my small standmounts . I placed them between my stands and speakers with excellent results , better bass and separation . Well worth the money . thanks for posting Adrian
    Regards
    Brian

    Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment . (Rumi )


    Korus Computer Audio music server
    JustBoom DAC . HRT Musicstreamer 2
    Amplifier : Sony TA FB740R
    Speakers : Tannoy 637
    Interconnects : MS Audio / Klotz MC5000 .
    Speaker cables : Western Electric 16AG

  6. #16
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: Londiniumsville

    Posts: 361
    I'm Robin.

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    Bought myself some Isoacoustics isopucks to stick under a cd transport. £75 for eight. I’ve used 3 and haven’t noticed much difference for better or worse.
    Robin. mit ARC CD9, ARC ref 5 / darTZeel power + magico v2. Clearaudio Innovation wood / Phantom ll / Lyra Atlas / Aurorasound Vida,
    Stax 009S cans.KGGG headamp. all connected with wires. Auralic Aries - Aqua La Scala. Manley Absolute. Focal Stellias. HD800S Hyland headphones - Venus

  7. #17
    Join Date: Apr 2014

    Location: Hyde

    Posts: 48
    I'm Martin.

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    This has been a really interesting read. My speakers are on a suspended floor which is above a large void (garage). The flooring is Karndean and there are rugs and soft furnishings aplenty in the room. I thought I'd grab some of those Hudson HiFi isolation feet to see if I'd hear any appreciable difference in the sound. I'm always rather wary of confirmation bias, but to me there is a clear and noticeable difference to the sound. Bass sounds tighter, more punchy and clearly defined. The speakers sound faster and there's a more defined soundstage - more depth horizontally and more headroom vertically too. Instruments seem to be more clearly defined within the soundstage too. I've been really pleasantly surprised about how much difference this seems to have made. I've carried on playing music for a couple of weeks after ordering these, just to see whether I still felt that sound had changed or whether there was an element of confirmation bias and I was just hearing what I wanted to, but I still hear the same differences.

    I've been really pleased with my purchases Adrian. I feel that it's been £50 well spent. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. Improving the speaker isolation from my suspended flooring does seem to have made a change for the better. A secondary benefit is that it is far easier to reposition my speakers now without the worry of the spikes carving nice marks into the Karndean - albeit that the spikes were sat in protective cups!
    Amplification: Exposure 2010S2 and Firebottle Phono Plus
    Sources: Project Xpression III, Ortofon 2M Blue; Audiolab 8200CD; Squeezebox Touch
    Speakers: Audio Note AZ2
    Cables: Mogami for speakers and interconnects.

  8. #18
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Seaton, Devon, UK

    Posts: 13,239
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martinblueboy View Post
    This has been a really interesting read. My speakers are on a suspended floor which is above a large void (garage). The flooring is Karndean and there are rugs and soft furnishings aplenty in the room. I thought I'd grab some of those Hudson HiFi isolation feet to see if I'd hear any appreciable difference in the sound. I'm always rather wary of confirmation bias, but to me there is a clear and noticeable difference to the sound. Bass sounds tighter, more punchy and clearly defined. The speakers sound faster and there's a more defined soundstage - more depth horizontally and more headroom vertically too. Instruments seem to be more clearly defined within the soundstage too. I've been really pleasantly surprised about how much difference this seems to have made. I've carried on playing music for a couple of weeks after ordering these, just to see whether I still felt that sound had changed or whether there was an element of confirmation bias and I was just hearing what I wanted to, but I still hear the same differences.

    I've been really pleased with my purchases Adrian. I feel that it's been £50 well spent. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. Improving the speaker isolation from my suspended flooring does seem to have made a change for the better. A secondary benefit is that it is far easier to reposition my speakers now without the worry of the spikes carving nice marks into the Karndean - albeit that the spikes were sat in protective cups!
    Hi Martin

    Well I am really pleased it has helped you and improved your listening experience, and a few others. Like you I was somewhat sceptical and have put the spikes back 3 times now to hear the difference, and each time I have returned to the Hudson’s after a couple of hours, the improvements with them are obvious to me.

    Any one who does not mind a £50 punt should have a go, it could be well worth doing!

    Cheers

    Adrian
    Listening is the act of aural discrimination and dissemination of sound, and accepting you get it wrong sometimes.

    Analog Inputs: Pro-Ject Signature 10 TT & arm, Benz Micro LP-S, Michel Cusis MC, Goldring 2500 and Ortofon Rondo Blue cartridges, Hitachi FT5500 mk2 Tuner

    Digital:- Marantz SA-KI Pearl CD player, RaspberryPi/HifiBerry Digi+ Pro, Buffalo NAS Drive

    Amplification:- AudioValve Sunilda phono stage, Krell KSP-7B pre-amp, Krell KSA-80 power amp

    Output: Wilson Benesch Vector speakers, KLH Ultimate One Headphones

    Cables: Tellurium Q Ultra Black II RCA & Chord Epic 2 RCA, various speaker leads, & links


    I think I am nearing audio nirvana, but don’t tell anyone.

  9. #19
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Warrington

    Posts: 3,451
    I'm Neil.

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    Spikes (coupling) and suspended wooden floors, just say no.

    I concur that decoupling my speakers from the floor offered the best value for money upgrade I have had. Plus, my neighbours no longer complain.
    Mana Acoustics Racks / Bright Star IsoNodes Decoupling >> Allo DigiOne Player >> Pedja Rogic's Audial Model S DAC + Pioneer PL-71 turntable / Vista Audio phono-1 mk II / Denon PCL-5 headshell / Reson Reca >> LFD DLS >> LFD PA2M (SE) >> Royd RR3s.

  10. #20
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Aughton, Ormskirk

    Posts: 2,848
    I'm Jerry.

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    I just use ordinary plastic glides under my heavy floorstanding speakers but they are on a concrete floor with laminate flooring over. The bass seems ok, very occasionally a little boom but not a big problem. Would some of these specialist products be worthwhile?
    Jerry
    Hifi: IPL transmission line floorstanding speakers, Squeezebox Touch, Denafrips Ares 11 DAC, DCB1 Pre-amplifier, Croft Series 7 power amp.
    Custom Hifi cables HA10SE headphone amplifier and Hifiman HE-400 headphones.
    AV system: LG 55B7, Denon AVR -x2300w receiver, Quad 12L (front) 11c Centre and 11L rear . Velodyne DD15 subwoofer.

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