+ Reply to Thread
Page 8 of 11 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 103

Thread: Neurochrome Modulus-686

  1. #71
    Join Date: May 2018

    Location: Woking

    Posts: 803
    I'm Chris.

    Default

    From my relatively short experience . . . . .

    Power amplifier - Neutral
    Source/DAC - Neutral
    Speakers - Neutral

    Preamp - whatever you like - warm, lush, rich, revealing, transparent or indeed neutral etc.

    It's where preferences and tweaks can be made most noticeably to the system. In an ideal scenario all of it would be 'neutral' (of no character) but our ears (senses) aren't all stimulated by the same things (objective sound).

    Until I settled on the 'right' (for me) combination of tubes/caps etc for this particular preamp I had 3-4 other amplifiers around just in case and as a reference. Class A, tube, integrated, class D. With this preamp and this power amp they are all sold/for sale.

    Room acoustics also play a part in this, a neutral amplifier (preamp/whatever) may sound way too harsh in a 'sharp' acoustic environment. Changing to a warmer/lusher sounding one (maybe rolled off/distorted) may be exactly what the room (and therefore in this case 'the system') requires. At least in the interests of listener satisfaction. At this point measurements and accuracy are a fallacy. They give you the information straight and true, if you don't actually like listening to this information (accurate or not) then there is no point in chasing it really is there?

    Depends what you're in it for really.

    Personally accuracy/transparency has gotten me very close to where I want to be (huge fan of Quad 57/63's) but had I been simply wanting to increase accuracy/transparency I certainly wouldn't have settled on this preamp. That would have been a mistake as far as my listener satisfaction is concerned.
    System 1: - Amp - Musical Paradise MP-701 mk2 - Neurochrome 686
    - Source: Audio Technica LP-5 - Custom 6V6 stage - Novafidelity X30 - Soekris 1421 (LPSU) - Custom TDA1541 C3G DAC -
    - Speakers: Martin Logan Prodigy's - Subs: - REL T3's -

    System 2 - Amp: Musical Paradise MP 303/Custom 300B SET - Custom 6SL7 Pre -
    - Source: Pioneer N-30K - SONCOZ SGD1 -
    - Speakers: Loth X BS1's - Sub: REL T3 -

  2. #72
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubi View Post
    You seem to contradict yourself, an excerpt from your "Jimblog":

    "I was so impressed with the 686 performance in all the combinations I tried today. It has star quality and I feel it may well be exactly what I am looking for. Compared to other muscle amps I have heard it goes about its business without letting you know it is there, most other power amps I have heard have their own sonic signature. Not the 686. I know this amp was engineered for vanishingly low levels of distortion but I was anxious this would also mean it had no soul or spirit. This is certainly not the case.

    The Croft although transparent is not as clean as the 686 or grain free so it must be introducing something else which becomes apparent when switching between the two. I wrote in my listening notes the words analogue, smooth and clarity many times. It is this very aspect that makes the 686 stand out above most amps I have heard. I have heard greater clarity from other power amps but they then become etched and fatiguing, not so the 686. You could listen to this in your system without ever tiring from it. As Alan ( Firebottle) said it almost has no sound of its own, you have to dial this in with your own ancillary equipment whether that is digital or analogue, valve or SS"
    I stand to be corrected and after my final listening session I believed the 686 had no soul but it certainly had spirit, a very neutral one.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  3. #73
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubi View Post
    It is not up to you what amplifier is more "accurate", the specifications and circuit design do that. It is only for you to decide what amplifier you prefer listening to.
    Yes circuit design will give you technical accuracy and Daniel you can have an opinion on which one you feel sounds more accurate.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  4. #74
    Join Date: Jun 2015

    Location: London/Durham

    Posts: 6,869
    I'm Lawrence.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Opti-cal View Post
    From my relatively short experience . . . . .

    Power amplifier - Neutral
    Source/DAC - Neutral
    Speakers - Neutral

    Preamp - whatever you like - warm, lush, rich, revealing, transparent or indeed neutral etc.

    It's where preferences and tweaks can be made most noticeably to the system. In an ideal scenario all of it would be 'neutral' (of no character) but our ears (senses) aren't all stimulated by the same things (objective sound).

    Until I settled on the 'right' (for me) combination of tubes/caps etc for this particular preamp I had 3-4 other amplifiers around just in case and as a reference. Class A, tube, integrated, class D. With this preamp and this power amp they are all sold/for sale.

    Room acoustics also play a part in this, a neutral amplifier (preamp/whatever) may sound way too harsh in a 'sharp' acoustic environment. Changing to a warmer/lusher sounding one (maybe rolled off/distorted) may be exactly what the room (and therefore in this case 'the system') requires. At least in the interests of listener satisfaction. At this point measurements and accuracy are a fallacy. They give you the information straight and true, if you don't actually like listening to this information (accurate or not) then there is no point in chasing it really is there?

    Depends what you're in it for really.

    Personally accuracy/transparency has gotten me very close to where I want to be (huge fan of Quad 57/63's) but had I been simply wanting to increase accuracy/transparency I certainly wouldn't have settled on this preamp. That would have been a mistake as far as my listener satisfaction is concerned.
    Many ways to skin a cat, having all bar one neutral components and then using the choice of the last one (could equally be a dac as a pre I have found - which is the situation I have happily ended up with) certainly makes life easier than mixing and matching several coloured components. Not to mention cables.

    Some people may like putting coloured components together to get to the sound they like. I certainly spent many years doing that, my choices depending on what good value kit came up on Gumtree and the like at any time.

    Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

  5. #75
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 6,772
    I'm James.

    Default

    The greatest laugh is that whatever you actually think are neutral components you end up sending the whole signal through a pair of speakers which must be the most non neutral component you can have and then you bounce the sound round a room that will have a massive effect again so some of the neutrality folk try and gain can be simply destroyed at the final point of delivery!
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  6. #76
    Join Date: Aug 2020

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 45
    I'm Zander.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I stand to be corrected and after my final listening session I believed the 686 had no soul but it certainly had spirit, a very neutral one.
    What i am struggling to reconcile (it seems you were struggling with it too) is the multiple coflicting or contradicting statements you make in them

    Soekris - BT2 - 686

    I listened to about an hour with this sytem and my final thoughts were that it was a touch analytical and that it confirmed what I thought of digital. If you want a digital system or play digital music predominently this would be a killer system. I have not heard better. Nothing is missing and nothing taken away. There is lots to revel in and enjoy. It can make you marvel at some digital recordings which sound magnificent through this sytem. It does not make the error of plunging down the total detail at the expense of the music route. There is a very nice balance to the BT2 and 686 in this respect and enough weight and warmth and a see through presentation to the recording. This is the best digital set up i have heard in this respect.


    You say:

    "nothing is missing and nothing is taken away"

    "If you want a digital system or play digital music predominently this would be a killer system. I have not heard better"

    "This is the best digital set up i have heard"


    Here you are actively recommending " the most souless amplifier i have ever heard" :

    "I think the 686 would be your dream amp Martin. It has almost no character of its own and is as neutral an amp I have ever heard. Every other amp I have listened too imparts some character like speakers do but the 686 does not. It is as transparent as air, yes the window is not even there!"

    Then there is this:

    Immediately plugging in the 686 things were different this time. Superb clarity, very clear cut soundstage and totally balanced sound from top to bottom. The soundstage was no smaller or larger than my current Series 7 so this was good. This amp has everything. Tonal quality, dynamics, detail in massive ammounts, super smooth grain free sound. Natural and excellent control not only in the bass region but over every frequency...no sibilance! Overall impression Clarity, clarity, clarity. Thats what I wrote in my notes. Fabulous amp and I have to agree with everyone elses opinion on how this amp performs.

    The transparency and neutrality of this amp is reference class. I have not heard better anywhere. What a relief to hear what it can actually do. It complimented my Croft 25R superbly. A marriage made in heaven


    And once again, you heavily compliment a 686:

    In a digital set up it shows total precision and such amazing clarity it is breathtaking! With the inherent low noise floor and wide dynamic range of digital it really is the ultimate tool to convey what was mastered on the recording. Olivers BT2 helps this process very well too.

    There is absolutely no sound signature to this amp it is almost invisible yet present at the same time like wind. Yes I know I am talking in slightly illusive terms but the 686 is a special amp and would suit very much those who do not want any character to be imposed on the music they are listening too. I feel this is almost impossible to do with any other piece of gear in the music chain.


    Your words have changed whilst you have transfered your opinion from one forum to another.
    Last edited by Ubi; 19-02-2021 at 12:25.

  7. #77
    Join Date: Aug 2020

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 45
    I'm Zander.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Yes circuit design will give you technical accuracy and Daniel you can have an opinion on which one you feel sounds more accurate.
    No, not an opinion. It's science.

    The measurements will declare a clear and obvious advantage or disadvantage in measured performance for one amplifier over another. Whether you enjoy that performance is the only opinion you can have. Accuracy is also not an opinion. It is a measured fact. Your Opinion on what sounds more in line with your reality is an opinion.

    You ( a person) cannot declare one amplifier to be more transparent or accurate by listening, when the specifications tell all of the story and your ears do not.

    Also, this is not "my opinion" it is scientific fact. Sorry James.

  8. #78
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubi View Post
    No, not an opinion. It's science.

    The measurements will declare a clear and obvious advantage or disadvantage in measured performance for one amplifier over another. Whether you enjoy that performance is the only opinion you can have. Accuracy is also not an opinion. It is a measured fact. Your Opinion on what sounds more in line with your reality is an opinion.

    You ( a person) cannot declare one amplifier to be more transparent or accurate by listening, when the specifications tell all of the story and your ears do not.

    Also, this is not "my opinion" it is scientific fact. Sorry James.
    people here have the right to state their preference Daniel. this is not just about science but how people perceive the sounds they here. That is the ethos here.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  9. #79
    Join Date: Aug 2020

    Location: Lincolnshire

    Posts: 45
    I'm Zander.

    Default

    I dont post here very often. I don't post anywhere often.

    The "Flat Earth" opinions that surrounded this hobby in the 70s & 80s pushed me to abandon the HiFI "people" , magazines and then later forums.

    I am once again going to leave forums to those who enjoy discussing HiFI but i wish to leave you with this:

    If you get your temperature taken by a Dr, and the gadget they use is acurate to 0.00001%, would you argue with their result or the "accuracy" of it with an opinion based on what your mother thinks by placing her hand on your head? No, i don't think you will. You may prefer having mothers hand on your head than a thermometer up your arse, but when you want accurate results you use the Dr's gadget.

    Science is accurate, your ears are not. Your preferences are not science, they are opinion.

  10. #80
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubi View Post
    No, not an opinion. It's science.

    The measurements will declare a clear and obvious advantage or disadvantage in measured performance for one amplifier over another. Whether you enjoy that performance is the only opinion you can have. Accuracy is also not an opinion. It is a measured fact. Your Opinion on what sounds more in line with your reality is an opinion.

    You ( a person) cannot declare one amplifier to be more transparent or accurate by listening, when the specifications tell all of the story and your ears do not.

    Also, this is not "my opinion" it is scientific fact. Sorry James.

    If only things were so black and white......... You fail to explain your logic. I'd like you to explain and define how the effects & measurements of each and every hi-fi based variable enabled you to come to your conclusions. Now this is something I'd like to see you produce when the combined effort of numerous companies, numerous highly intelligent individuals cant. I'd really love to see your Magnum Opus....
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



+ Reply to Thread
Page 8 of 11 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •