What is the difference between these Audio Technica Styli?

[CageyH]

Is there any difference between the ATN150SA and the VMN50SH?
They look very similar to me.

[camtwister]

I've wondered this also.
The specifications are identical apart from the recommended VTF, which doesn't overlap.
This is curious, given that their compliance and the parent cartridge mass is identical.
Buy the cheapest one!

[graham67]

A while back, the 150 range was renamed to make it more obvious where it fits in the MM hierarchy.

The new range consolidated the 150mlx,150Sa and 150ANV into the 740, 750, 760 models. There were some minor adjustments to the coil inductance and impedance values but I believe the stylus is the same on the 150Sa and 750.

If you can source a NOS 150Sa, at a cheaper price than a 750 it won't disappoint, I use one and its my favourite MM that is not out of place on a high end system. I had to invest a lot of time and effort to get a better performance from MC

[Jac Hawk]

Audio Technica have a reputation for this, the Art 7 and Art 9 have recently been rebranded as Art 9xx and had threaded bolt holes added, the cost has also gone up but i've been reliably informed that the specs have stayed the same, even so people on here that have bought the new re-branded cart swear they can hear an audible difference between the old Art 9 and the new one, personally speaking if the specs are the same then they should sound the same and the difference could be something like better alignment or just the purchaser wanting to hear a difference

[prestonchipfryer]

Audio Technica have a reputation for this, the Art 7 and Art 9 have recently been rebranded as Art 9xx and had threaded bolt holes added, the cost has also gone up but i've been reliably informed that the specs have stayed the same, even so people on here that have bought the new re-branded cart swear they can hear an audible difference between the old Art 9 and the new one, personally speaking if the specs are the same then they should sound the same and the difference could be something like better alignment or just the purchaser wanting to hear a difference

You'd be more than welcome to come and have a listen to both the original ART 9 and the newer ART 9 XI (the new ones has the threaded holes) and make your own mind up. You are aware that people with golden ears (like moi) are able to tell the difference between different cartridges. Even those of the same spec and same model can and do sound different.

The new ARTXI pisses all over the older model. In my golden-eared opinion of course.

[camtwister]

I've spent the day considering what factors determine vtf, after reading Kevin's post. I simplified this by considering only MM designs.
The information that I've researched may help Kevin, so I'll post it here.
I think that vtf is determined by mechanical compliance in three dimensions (which is in itself a factor of cantilever design, suspension and material), and that there are other considerations in the design process such as mass, stylus profile, vta, groove (mono, stereo, cutting angle etc.), tonearm/headshell compatibility and the cartridge electrical system.

Given that, here are the AT specs relevant to the original post and my questions that arise from the above.

AT150Sa / ATN150Sa

Frequency Response: 20 - 25,000Hz
Channel Separation: 30dB (1kHz)
Output Channel Balance: 1.0dB (1kHz)
Output Voltage: 4.0mV (1kHz, 5cm/sec.)
Vertical Tracking Angle: 23˚
Vertical Tracking Force Range: 1.0 – 1.8g (1.4g standard)
Coil Impedance: 3,200Ω (1kHz)
Stylus Shape: Shibata
Stylus Size: 0.3 x 0.7 mm
Stylus Construction: Nude Square Shank
Cantilever: Aluminium Tapered Pipe
Static Compliance: 40 x 10-6 cm/dyne
Dynamic Compliance: 10 x 10-6 cm/dyne (100Hz)
Recommended Load Impedance: 47,000Ω
Recommended Load Capacitance: 100 – 200pF
Mass: 8.0g


VM750SH / VMN50SH

Frequency Response: 20 - 27,000Hz
Channel separation: 30dB (1kHz)
Output balance: 1.0dB (1kHz)
Output voltage: 4.0mV (1kHz, 5cm/sec.)
Vertical tracking angle: 23°
Vertical Tracking Force: 1.8 to 2.2g (2.0g standard)
Coil impedance: 2.7k ohms ; Coil inductance: 460mH (1kHz)
Stylus Shape: Nude Shibata
Stylus Size: 2.7 × 0.26 mm
Cantilever: Aluminium tapered pipe
Static compliance: 40×10 -6 cm/dyne
Dynamic compliance: 10×10 -6 cm/dyne (100Hz)
Load impedance: 47k ohms
Load capacitance: 100 - 200pF
Mass: 8.0g


My first question:
are the stylus dimensions correct? If they are both Shibata profiles, there is substantial discrepancy in the quoted figures.

My second question:
if the only specification difference between the AT150Sa and VM750SH is that of coil impedance, why is the vtf range so significantly different?

[Jac Hawk]

You'd be more than welcome to come and have a listen to both the original ART 9 and the newer ART 9 XI (the new ones has the threaded holes) and make your own mind up. You are aware that people with golden ears (like moi) are able to tell the difference between different cartridges. Even those of the same spec and same model can and do sound different.

The new ARTXI pisses all over the older model. In my golden-eared opinion of course.

As i've said John technically there is no difference apart from the threaded holes and a price increase (which by the way isn't significant enough for them to do any reengineering) i'd question your comment that the XI "pisses all over the original" at the £1k mark ALL cartridges should be pretty good in my opinion, differences at that level aren't night and day or as profound as your comment would suggest and i'd stick to my original comment that the differences you can hear aren't that the XI is somehow superior to its predecessor and more likely that it's been mounted slightly better or perhaps you're hearing the age of the Art 9 or possibly your original Art 9 has had a defect from new and it has never played with both barrels so to speak, unfortunately Audio Technica have had quality control issues with Art 9 carts, people on this forum that have bought them can testify to that fact.

[prestonchipfryer]

As i've said John technically there is no difference apart from the threaded holes and a price increase (which by the way isn't significant enough for them to do any reengineering) i'd question your comment that the XI "pisses all over the original" at the £1k mark ALL cartridges should be pretty good in my opinion, differences at that level aren't night and day or as profound as your comment would suggest and i'd stick to my original comment that the differences you can hear aren't that the XI is somehow superior to its predecessor and more likely that it's been mounted slightly better or perhaps you're hearing the age of the Art 9 or possibly your original Art 9 has had a defect from new and it has never played with both barrels so to speak, unfortunately Audio Technica have had quality control issues with Art 9 carts, people on this forum that have bought them can testify to that fact.

Please yourself. Obviously not happy til you've had the last word.