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Thread: Buyer / Seller protection on Art of Sound.

  1. #71
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CageyH View Post
    It is not difficult (with all of the info now in this thread) to work out what transaction this thread is about.

    If you check the consumer rights act, the seller is under no obligation to disclose any faults, but misrepresenting goods is not allowed.

    If he is not willing to come to an agreement, you only have three choices.

    1. Alternative dispute resolution
    2. Small claims court
    3. Take it on the chin and put it down to experience.
    It's a private sale so the Consumer Rights Act isn't applicable. Although if the seller misrepresents in a private sale then that is grounds for legal recourse. But in this situation it doesn't look like the seller misrepresented. If he didn't that rules out option 2).
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  2. #72
    Join Date: May 2013

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    I'm Neil.

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    Though this thread is headed up buyer seller protection, that's not really the issue. Protection is generally understood to be about protecting the buyer from a seller who fails to perform his side of the contract. Here, the seller supplied the goods, and they worked.

    What the OP is asking for is breakdown cover under a warranty. Buying from a shop, even secondhand, and that's a reasonable request. But in a private sale of used goods? Not unless the seller explicitly assumes responsibility. And that would perhaps be unwise given that the seller has no control or visibility of the way in which the buyer handles the goods.

    Having said that, the seller's reported behaviour seems grudging and unhelpful - something one wouldn't wish to see in an online 'community'.

  3. #73
    Join Date: Mar 2014

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    I'm malcolm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    It's a private sale so the Consumer Rights Act isn't applicable. Although if the seller misrepresents in a private sale then that is grounds for legal recourse. But in this situation it doesn't look like the seller misrepresented. If he didn't that rules out option 2).
    Exactly. Under the Act, a private seller is only obliged to provide goods “as described”.

    So as long as the description has not been misleading, you do not have the right to ask for your money back if you are unhappy with what you have bought or if there is a problem with the item.

    Having bought and sold a lot of gear online over the years I've had mostly good experiences and usually if something goes wrong the seller will try their best to help, which is what I try t do when selling. Things only tend to breakdown with when the buyer or seller's attitude is hostile.

    However these are difficult days and who knows what other stress the buyer or seller may be under.
    Audiophile Tosher

  4. #74
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

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    I'm Geoff.

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    I regard Hi-Fi purchases from private sellers the same way as I would with buying used cars.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  5. #75
    Join Date: Jan 2012

    Location: Glasgow, UK

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    I'm Tony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    I regard Hi-Fi purchases from private sellers the same way as I would with buying used cars.
    Very much doubt it, with a car purchase you can RPI the car for buttons which will tell you if it's been an insurance write off or has certain insurance conditions attached to it and you can also check the MOT online along with reported milage and if it's being sold on Autotrader the advert will tell you most of this information especially the insurance status of the car.

    There is absolutely no comparison with buying hifi gear unless of course you are not really that bothered about the car or the hifi gear being dodgy in which case fair enough.

    I suspect that the seller didn't want to refund the entire purchase of the TT and the PSU, presumably that's what the buyer wanted, a full refund, and who can blame him?

  6. #76
    Join Date: Jan 2012

    Location: Glasgow, UK

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    I'm Tony.

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    The point I'm making here is that if the seller needed the funds from the sale for 'whatever' reason ie rent or mortgage payments, debt essentially, then the motivation to get rid of something quickly and faulty is clearly fraud and stealing.

    The police won't be interested clearly so the purchaser would have to go legal ie take the seller to court for a refund of the full amount which is a very simple process in England.

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    No it isn't. You seem to have overlooked the 'in good faith' bit. The o/p has absolutely no recourse in Law because caveat emptor applies.

    If the seller knew it was faulty and sold it anyway then that's a different matter. But that has not been established. Plus it worked fine for ten days after receipt.

    If you bought a car in a private sale and drove round in it for ten days and then the gearbox went do you think you could take it back and demand a refund? No you can't. If it broke down when you'd only gone fifty feet from the house were you bought it you still have zero legal right to a refund.

    'Doing the decent thing' is a different matter. If it was me I'd have just refunded but then I can afford to take the hit. Not everyone can. It's easy to do the decent thing if you can afford to. Maybe this bloke can't and given he's under no legal obligation to do so then he clearly isn't going to.

  7. #77
    Join Date: Jan 2012

    Location: Glasgow, UK

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    BTW, I just did a forum search for a Rega Planar 6 and came across an advert for one for sale recently for £700 that seller sells an awful lot of gear on here and on PFM...

  8. #78
    Join Date: Mar 2017

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    I'm Edward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natara View Post
    I’ve just contacted one of the manufacturers representatives to see if anything can be done regarding a warranty but I’m not sure if any warranty is transferable yet although as I’m the third owner buying it from someone who bought it ex dem I’m doubtful. I’m not at the point of naming and shaming yet let’s see what the manufacturer says.
    Quote Originally Posted by Natara View Post
    That’s all fine until your potentially almost £700 out of pocket and it’s very easy to be understanding when it’s not your money. I go out in all weathers and lay bricks to earn that money I didn’t fall from the sky.
    Quote Originally Posted by Natara View Post
    There was really no need for any of this all the seller had to do was offer to have the faulty psu part of the deck shipped back to the dealer he bought it from under warranty I would have parcelled it up and sent it for him all he had to do was handle communications. Instead his attitude was and is it's now not his problem end of.
    Quote Originally Posted by Natara View Post
    Well the faulty unit was a Rega Neo and I've spoken to Paul Darwin of Rega over on pfm and he has given me a fix to try and told me to keep him updated so that at least looks promising.
    Hopefully Rega will come back to you with a solution that works for you. Alternatively perhaps the dealer who sold the kit (including the Neo) may wish to help with the assistance of the original AoS member. Or perhaps try contacting the dealer direct? Sadly however many dealers only offer 3 months warranty on ex-dem items. Maybe the dealer in question here
    offers more?

    Seems such a shame that you are not able to use the TT system costing nearly £700 due to an item (part of the system) that only costs about £240 to replace new.
    Current: [P20] Roon/Tidal > Custom PC> Chevron Paradox NDF16 > Phast Pre > Neuro. 686 > Tannoy Berkley (RFC tweaks)


  9. #79
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    Quote Originally Posted by twotone View Post
    The point I'm making here is that if the seller needed the funds from the sale for 'whatever' reason ie rent or mortgage payments, debt essentially, then the motivation to get rid of something quickly and faulty is clearly fraud and stealing.

    The police won't be interested clearly so the purchaser would have to go legal ie take the seller to court for a refund of the full amount which is a very simple process in England.
    Except it didn't go faulty until ten days after the sale. There is absolutely no legal recourse unless it can be proven that there was a (presumably very intermittent) fault and that the seller knew about it when he put the deck up for sale. There is zero chance of proving that.

    A private sale is not covered by the same laws as a commercial sale. If it were a commercial sale then it would be covered by the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and it would be up to the seller to prove it wasn't faulty when he sold it.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  10. #80
    Join Date: Jan 2017

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    I'm bruce.

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    Nightmare - well it looks like that now private sellers may have to state whether they are providing some sort of guarantee despite not being a shop . In 30 yrs of occasional buying/selling hifi it only happened once that an item (preamp) stopped working and the buyer came to me inferring this was 'my fault' in some way . I put down a boundary that this was used, He had checked it over/ had it demmed , I was not a shop and I did not hear from Him again.

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